5000 Series Tweakers Out There?

[Sir Beregond]

+200 just means you don't have as aggressive a curve optimizer. It's all in what you are looking to get out of it. Optimized CO can sometimes overcome that gap. For example I was boosting higher with per core CO and +125 than with a straight +200. That said, still had some instability on low load/idle, so needs some more work. The one downside to CO, really a PITA to tweak. Though should be easier with a 5600X than a 5900X.

 

Can confirm, for non 3d v-cache Zen chips, specifically tuned memory makes a big difference. Throwing in a generic 3200 CL16 kit and then going to a tuned C14 3600 kit OC'd to max your max FCLK really makes a difference. For Zen 3, it's pretty rare to have an FCLK that hits 1900 or above stable, so usually I'd say a 3600 kit is the way to go. Looks like you have that already though.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[VoidTheWarranty]

On 20/04/2023 at 10:10, Sir Beregond said:

+200 just means you don't have as aggressive a curve optimizer. It's all in what you are looking to get out of it. Optimized CO can sometimes overcome that gap. For example I was boosting higher with per core CO and +125 than with a straight +200. That said, still had some instability on low load/idle, so needs some more work. The one downside to CO, really a PITA to tweak. Though should be easier with a 5600X than a 5900X.

 

Can confirm, for non 3d v-cache Zen chips, specifically tuned memory makes a big difference. Throwing in a generic 3200 CL16 kit and then going to a tuned C14 3600 kit OC'd to max your max FCLK really makes a difference. For Zen 3, it's pretty rare to have an FCLK that hits 1900 or above stable, so usually I'd say a 3600 kit is the way to go. Looks like you have that already though.

Yeah I have the 3600's. Unfortunately Thaiphoon burner isn't loading for them so not 100% sure what they are. I would tighten them up but so far they are stable with XMP enabled in my BIOS. 1800/1800 1:1. 

 

[neurotix]

4 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Yeah I have the 3600's. Unfortunately Thaiphoon burner isn't loading for them so not 100% sure what they are. I would tighten them up but so far they are stable with XMP enabled in my BIOS. 1800/1800 1:1. 

 

Tightening timings or raising frequency is a really good idea. The sweet spot for Ryzen 3000/5000 is 3733MHz/1866MHz fclk, or 3800/1900 if you can do it.

 

In the chart I mentioned in my last post about the 3900x vs 9900k, it was once the memory was at 3733MHz/1866 with good secondary and tertiary timings that it passed the 9900k significantly across about 20 games.

 

Going from 3600 to 3733 can translate to like a 5% performance boost in games, possibly more.

 

How much memory are you running? 16 or 32GB? If you can deal with 16GB and the system is primarily a gaming system, I cannot recommend that G.skill Flare X 3200 c14 kit enough. Thaiphoon Burner will recognize it and DRAM calc will spit out timings for 3733/3800, or I could post screencaps of mine..

 

Hope this helps.

[Sir Beregond]

Taiphoon Burner is not always accurate and sometimes can't even read what the memory ICs are.

 

While you may be able to figure out like Micron, Samsung, Hynix, if you are struggling to figure out like B-die, A-die, CJR, DJR, rev E, etc (depending on manufacturer), you may look here and this might help you figure it out: 

MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper

GITHUB.COM

---

C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.

 

[neurotix]

45 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

Taiphoon Burner is not always accurate and sometimes can't even read what the memory ICs are.

 

While you may be able to figure out like Micron, Samsung, Hynix, if you are struggling to figure out like B-die, A-die, CJR, DJR, rev E, etc (depending on manufacturer), you may look here and this might help you figure it out: 

MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper

GITHUB.COM

---

C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.

 

Yeah this was recommended by The_Stilt back in the day. And all the documentation on that page is incredibly useful and written by him. I highly suggest reading the whole thing (the AMD section at least)

 

The unfortunate part of this is that if Thaiphoon Burner can't read your ICs and you can't export a profile in ns, you are unable to use Ryzen Dram Calculator and import your profile, then generate timings for your specific kit.

 

However, there is something you can do if you figure out what type of ICs you have, which is to set Dram Calculator to Ryzen 2nd gen, pick your ICs from the list, pick your frequency and click generate safe. This will probably give you something to work with if you want to get your speed higher with tightened timings and the crucial secondary and tertiary timings set. Then just take a picture of your screen with your phone, or use snipping tool then print it off and get going in your bios.

Edited April 22, 2023 by neurotix

[neurotix]

Sorry to double post. I did some research and found this:

 

/icons/patreon/42832438

"HYDRA 1.3F PRO - RELEASED!" by 1usmus from Patreon | Kemono

KEMONO.PARTY

 

You both might want to look into this app, supposedly it can find CO limits for you on it's own, and it can also bypass boost clock restrictions from AMD. There's also support for generating DDR5 timings, which in my case was what I was most interested in, but with my B-Die it didn't work (clicking on generate timings did nothing).

 

Hope this helps.

Edited April 22, 2023 by neurotix

[kaliz]

I tuned my Ryzen 5600 like this:

 

1) find the best possible RAM overclock with stock settings. Mine came out at 4000 15-16-15 at 1,54v (b-die single rank 2x8GB) (Dont be shy to use bclk overclock 1-3% with a lower dram ratio; it is more relaxed for the memory controller, and has another pro: you CPU boostst higher)

2) now i had this platinum chip. +200MHz, -30 all core with 102 bclk with 4012C15 stable in everything. Probably your 5600X isnt going to get to that. Leave everything auto and start with -20 all core. with auto voltages and PBO limits to around 90W 125A 125A. Start testing with OCCT CPU test, AVX2 and SSE. Or prime95 small FTT's. Make sure you have proper cooling. With these programs you can see which core taps out. I ended up starting with -20 all core, pass, -25 all core pass, -30 all core pass. Then i raised bclk to 102 and restest with -30 all core. Pass. Your milage my vary

3) Now the real part where you get the most performance for your Ryzen. Get proper memory speed, then tighten up timings. My CPU was capable at 100bclk  of 1967 FCLK, 2000 fclk it didnt like. Now you know 1967 is stable, raise bclk. I ended up at 4012. Then set voltage to 1,6v (samsung b-die) and try to lower the primary timings. if you have a excellent kit 3800 14-14-14 or 4000 14-15-14 can be possible. Just dont settle for 3600C16 it is a waste of time imo. Ryzen NEEDS 3733+ at least. Here is my result: 

tm5-7 hosted at ImgBB

IMGBB.COM

---

Image tm5-7 hosted in ImgBB

 

[kaliz]

On 23/04/2023 at 00:27, neurotix said:

Sorry to double post. I did some research and found this:

 

/icons/patreon/42832438

"HYDRA 1.3F PRO - RELEASED!" by 1usmus from Patreon | Kemono

KEMONO.PARTY

 

You both might want to look into this app, supposedly it can find CO limits for you on it's own, and it can also bypass boost clock restrictions from AMD. There's also support for generating DDR5 timings, which in my case was what I was most interested in, but with my B-Die it didn't work (clicking on generate timings did nothing).

 

Hope this helps.

i tested this program, and manual OC is way better and more accurate! It tunes with CB20 which isnt a proper stresstest. Dont recommend at all.

[neurotix]

Yeah I haven't tried it much myself but since it hadn't been posted just thought I'd share it.

[damric]

The hardest part for PBO tuning is idle and light load testing. There's plenty of heavy load stress testing available but that doesn't help if your rig is crashing at idle

 

The curve optimizer is the right idea but it's just not anywhere near capable of certifying that you won't crash under light loads or idle.

 

I miss the old Phenom MSR Tweaker. It was extremely easy to test all P-states with that software.

[Sir Beregond]

18 minutes ago, damric said:

The hardest part for PBO tuning is idle and light load testing. There's plenty of heavy load stress testing available but that doesn't help if your rig is crashing at idle

 

The curve optimizer is the right idea but it's just not anywhere near capable of certifying that you won't crash under light loads or idle.

 

I miss the old Phenom MSR Tweaker. It was extremely easy to test all P-states with that software.

This 100%. Curve Optimizer definitely make idle/light load the most prone to stability issues if too aggressive. Actually what makes it one of the harder things to stability test.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[VoidTheWarranty]

5 hours ago, damric said:

The hardest part for PBO tuning is idle and light load testing. There's plenty of heavy load stress testing available but that doesn't help if your rig is crashing at idle

 

The curve optimizer is the right idea but it's just not anywhere near capable of certifying that you won't crash under light loads or idle.

 

I miss the old Phenom MSR Tweaker. It was extremely easy to test all P-states with that software.

I'm finding this sorta but I can't get it to crash. I'm trying to tighten the ship up. Right now if I want I can hit some CPU-Z multiplayer performance I'm hitting between 12500 - 12600 level however when gaming ehhhhh I'm not so sure it's 100%. Although it's also not crashing same with R23 or Tombraider benchmark. 

How many of you folks left Max CPU Boost clock override off?


*** Anyone feel like trying something ***
I haven't tried this but has anyone tried to do this I'm curious what will happen but maybe someone with liquid cooler should try it.

Max CPU Boost clock override: Auto + Positive. What does it boost you to? I assume it will just boost your clock high as it can go. I thought about disabling curve Optimizer and letting stock settings boost to wherever it wants based what you set your PPT / TDC /EDC as a safety net. (I could be wrong).

I'm just curious if it will help reduce clock stretching or anything else.

I haven't tried this but I'm kinda curious where it will take you. 

 

[Sir Beregond]

2 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

I'm finding this sorta but I can't get it to crash. I'm trying to tighten the ship up. Right now if I want I can hit some CPU-Z multiplayer performance I'm hitting between 12500 - 12600 level however when gaming ehhhhh I'm not so sure it's 100%. Although it's also not crashing same with R23 or Tombraider benchmark. 

How many of you folks left Max CPU Boost clock override off?


*** Anyone feel like trying something ***
I haven't tried this but has anyone tried to do this I'm curious what will happen but maybe someone with liquid cooler should try it.

Max CPU Boost clock override: Auto + Positive. What does it boost you to? I assume it will just boost your clock high as it can go. I thought about disabling curve Optimizer and letting stock settings boost to wherever it wants based what you set your PPT / TDC /EDC as a safety net. (I could be wrong).

I'm just curious if it will help reduce clock stretching or anything else.

I haven't tried this but I'm kinda curious where it will take you. 

 

Positive, as in a positive Curve Optimizer? Your BIOS maybe looks different then mine. I am not following the ask in terms of Auto + positive.

[VoidTheWarranty]

19 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

Positive, as in a positive Curve Optimizer? Your BIOS maybe looks different then mine. I am not following the ask in terms of Auto + positive.

[neurotix]

1 hour ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

 

Boost clock override does exactly what you would think. So every different Ryzen processor essentially has "stock" boost clocks, if you have a 5600 I'm not sure what that would be. However, on my 7900X3D (Zen 4 is no different) the stock boost clocks seem to be 5450MHz maximum, though it won't maintain that for long. The processor is advertised (I think) to boost to 5650MHz max and that's the max fused boost clock limit that shows up in my bios.

 

So in my case, I set max boost clock override to +200 and it will boost to 5650MHz on my second CCD (my first CCD with the extra L3 cache only does 5150MHz.) With 1usmus Ryzen Balanced Optimized power profile, I've seen 5600MHz max on core 7,8 and 5650MHz on 9,10,11, znd 12.

 

If you go Here: https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-5-5600x

 

And scroll down a lot you will see the specifications for your processor. It says max boost clock is 4600MHz so doing max boost clock override to +200 would boost you to 4800MHz potentially but only on your best quality cores and only for brief periods of time. If you set scalar to 10x, you will see it for longer and more often. Of course at the cost of more heat.

 

Sorry this is so long but I hope it helps. Generally, you wanna use either PBO with high limits and boost clock override, but probably not CO with it at the same time- though Sir B might know more about using them together.

Edited April 25, 2023 by neurotix

[Sir Beregond]

2 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Ah ok, that does look a bit different than mine, but ultimately the same thing. Yeah that will just add to the potential upper limit that your maximum boost clocks can reach. 

 

5600X can boost to 4.6GHz stock, so a +200 override should allow for theoretically boosting up to 4.8GHz for bursty single threaded stuff.

 

Curve Optimizer comes in and by undervolting gives you additional headroom to potentially boost even higher is really the best way to explain it. Stock PBO with +200, max I get on the boost with 5900X is 4.95GHz. Add in CO on auto and I can get up to 5.05GHz. Optimize CO manually and I've gotten it up to 5.15GHz boosts.

[neurotix]

10 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

Ah ok, that does look a bit different than mine, but ultimately the same thing. Yeah that will just add to the potential upper limit that your maximum boost clocks can reach. 

 

5600X can boost to 4.6GHz stock, so a +200 override should allow for theoretically boosting up to 4.8GHz for bursty single threaded stuff.

 

Curve Optimizer comes in and by undervolting gives you additional headroom to potentially boost even higher is really the best way to explain it. Stock PBO with +200, max I get on the boost with 5900X is 4.95GHz. Add in CO on auto and I can get up to 5.05GHz. Optimize CO manually and I've gotten it up to 5.15GHz boosts.

That's weird because with my 5900x just setting max boost clock override to +200 and PBO_Fmax Enhancer (Asus exclusive) would get me to 5150MHz in games.

Edited April 25, 2023 by neurotix

[VoidTheWarranty]

22 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

Ah ok, that does look a bit different than mine, but ultimately the same thing. Yeah that will just add to the potential upper limit that your maximum boost clocks can reach. 

 

5600X can boost to 4.6GHz stock, so a +200 override should allow for theoretically boosting up to 4.8GHz for bursty single threaded stuff.

 

Curve Optimizer comes in and by undervolting gives you additional headroom to potentially boost even higher is really the best way to explain it. Stock PBO with +200, max I get on the boost with 5900X is 4.95GHz. Add in CO on auto and I can get up to 5.05GHz. Optimize CO manually and I've gotten it up to 5.15GHz boosts.

 

Yeah I'm curious what will happen especially with stability instead of setting it to 50 or 200 but to set it to just positive and auto. I might try it and see what happens. I also worry if I set it to 200 it will just crash. At 5.15Ghz what do you have your PPT-TDC-EDC set to for it to be stable? 

[neurotix]

15 minutes ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Yeah I'm curious what will happen especially with stability instead of setting it to 50 or 200 but to set it to just positive and auto. I might try it and see what happens. I also worry if I set it to 200 it will just crash. At 5.15Ghz what do you have your PPT-TDC-EDC set to for it to be stable? 

What cooler do you have? Personally I just set motherboard limits and leave those alone, so I set current capacity to 140% for both the CPU and IO die and change other stuff in the digi+vrm section. I basically nax out the motherboard limits so it makes those irrelevant, then just set max boost clock override to +200 and enable PBO and I boost high and never crash. Leave voltage on auto.

 

I couldn't understand anything about the CO stuff and that video that was posted earlier in the thread about how to use it was just baffling to me so I don't even bother with CO.

[VoidTheWarranty]

20 minutes ago, neurotix said:

What cooler do you have? Personally I just set motherboard limits and leave those alone, so I set current capacity to 140% for both the CPU and IO die and change other stuff in the digi+vrm section. I basically nax out the motherboard limits so it makes those irrelevant, then just set max boost clock override to +200 and enable PBO and I boost high and never crash. Leave voltage on auto.

 

I couldn't understand anything about the CO stuff and that video that was posted earlier in the thread about how to use it was just baffling to me so I don't even bother with CO.

I use a RGB Wraith Prism so the AMD cooler that comes with 8 core processors and up. I use that from my 3800X for my 5600X which does a good job. My high temps are usually 67-72 degrees. 

I used motherboard limits for a bit but then I was trying to fine tune things. Maybe I'll give mobo limits a go again and try 200. See what happens.

[neurotix]

I wouldn't recommend it on the Wraith Prism cooler, I don't think it could handle it. I'd suggest motherboard limits and +150. You might see really high temps. If you don't, then try 200.

 

I used a Wraith Cooler for a while on my 3900x when I first got it in 2019- looks pretty but on a 3900x I basically couldn't overclock at all, temps were too high.

 

I'd suggest getting a better cooler if you have the money. A H100i or Liquid Freezer II 240mm would definitely allow you to leave CO alone, set motherboard power limits to the max, and do +200 boost clock.

 

Though I digress, under a gaming load doing +200 and mobo limits might be ok in games because you're really probably only going to see 1-2 threads hitting 4800MHz. If you don't, the chip might not have enough voltage on auto and you might need to apply a positive voltage offset of 0.025v to see it hit those speeds. Until the last bios update, this is what I had to do to see boosts to 5650MHz on CCD2 on my chip.

 

Hope this is helpful. Just remember, set your co stuff back to 0 if you try this route.

Edited April 26, 2023 by neurotix

[VoidTheWarranty]

17 hours ago, neurotix said:

I wouldn't recommend it on the Wraith Prism cooler, I don't think it could handle it. I'd suggest motherboard limits and +150. You might see really high temps. If you don't, then try 200.

 

I used a Wraith Cooler for a while on my 3900x when I first got it in 2019- looks pretty but on a 3900x I basically couldn't overclock at all, temps were too high.

 

I'd suggest getting a better cooler if you have the money. A H100i or Liquid Freezer II 240mm would definitely allow you to leave CO alone, set motherboard power limits to the max, and do +200 boost clock.

 

Though I digress, under a gaming load doing +200 and mobo limits might be ok in games because you're really probably only going to see 1-2 threads hitting 4800MHz. If you don't, the chip might not have enough voltage on auto and you might need to apply a positive voltage offset of 0.025v to see it hit those speeds. Until the last bios update, this is what I had to do to see boosts to 5650MHz on CCD2 on my chip.

 

Hope this is helpful. Just remember, set your co stuff back to 0 if you try this route.

Cooler Master who made these coolers to their credit actually did a good job AMD who cheaped out on the stock coolers for the 5600X I feel for anyone using the stock cooler. It's funny though cause my 3800X I feel like this cooler wasn't super adequate but for my 5600X it's just laughing. I can play COD with tweaked settings for a couple hours in my NZXT H510 case (not exactly know for great cooling) the hottest I'd hit is like 67C and that's not my average that just max temp. If CM offered an upgrade kit for a better fan I'd jump on it cause I love the cool of the cooler. Balancing the noise is the biggest hurdle. 

[neurotix]

On a 5600x, it might be ok. Give it a try. Just write down your CO limits per core beforehand, set them all to 0, set motherboard limits, +200 boost clock then play your favorite game and monitor temps with AIDA64 or something.

 

Yes it looks cool but for serious overclocking it's pretty crap on an 8 or 12 core chip. I can't even imagine how terrible it would be on Zen 4 with how high it boosts.

[kaliz]

you can try costum limts, like 88W ppt, 75A, 125A edc or even lower edc. it helps passing ycruncher. I think motherboard limits are way too high for 5600X, my cheap B550M board sets 150W, 125A, 150A and the Unify-X even higher.

[VoidTheWarranty]

On 26/04/2023 at 16:53, neurotix said:

I wouldn't recommend it on the Wraith Prism cooler, I don't think it could handle it. I'd suggest motherboard limits and +150. You might see really high temps. If you don't, then try 200.

 

I used a Wraith Cooler for a while on my 3900x when I first got it in 2019- looks pretty but on a 3900x I basically couldn't overclock at all, temps were too high.

 

I'd suggest getting a better cooler if you have the money. A H100i or Liquid Freezer II 240mm would definitely allow you to leave CO alone, set motherboard power limits to the max, and do +200 boost clock.

 

Though I digress, under a gaming load doing +200 and mobo limits might be ok in games because you're really probably only going to see 1-2 threads hitting 4800MHz. If you don't, the chip might not have enough voltage on auto and you might need to apply a positive voltage offset of 0.025v to see it hit those speeds. Until the last bios update, this is what I had to do to see boosts to 5650MHz on CCD2 on my chip.

 

Hope this is helpful. Just remember, set your co stuff back to 0 if you try this route.

I've been lingering around 110-60-115 to 110-65-115 as of late. When I ran -20 allcore and +50 boost I got some of my best benchmark scores this was after getting bored of tweaking each core. But it felt a bit off in games. I might try the +100 and hope it doesn't crash with 110-65-115 but not sure about an offset. This is a bronze chip I'm working with.