Sir Beregond

Interesting, I'll have to keep a closer eye on 4070 Ti and below cards. I saw a big uptick in RDNA2 movement here in Denver, but it is because like you say, they are massively discounted. 30-series hasn't seen a huge discount from 2020-2021 MSRPs as far as I can see. I also noticed that the only 30-series cards that see any volume still at my store are 3050's, 3060's, 3060 Ti's. 3070 and 3070 Ti are more onesie twosie. 3080 and above have just been gone for months. I don't really see RDNA3 cards moving either. Maybe once the 7800 series starts releasing, but the 7900 series has been priced completely wrong. AMD had an opportunity to sock it to Nvidia this gen, absolutely, but they chose not to. I don't know why people keep thinking AMD only doing mid-range cards is a winning formula for them. This is exactly why their market share shrunk and general consumer perception of Radeon as a brand is that it's second rate. The only reason I see AMD pulling out of the enthusiast market is because they stopped giving a crap about trying to do anything revolutionary with Radeon and are content to service 10-15% of the market. Sad really considering the turnaround they pulled on Intel with Ryzen and Epyc.

I mean I suspect many like you had the same feeling, but others also saw it as the first 4k120 card and jumped on it, because the 3090 is not that and let's be real a lot of enthusiasts don't seem to have problems dropping that kinda dough every gen. I'm not one of them, but I do see that. Also, I haven't seen any new 3090's, 3090 Ti's, 3080 Ti's, or 3080's in stock for months, so I am pretty sure Nvidia has mostly sold through their inventory of top end GA102 based Ampere cards. Below that though, if there are good prices, 30-series might still be selling well. Personally I saw an uptick in RDNA2 sales more than anything at my local Micro Center.

No heat here. It is hard to get numbers, I don't feel it's hard to judge when you look at multiple forums, Reddit, locally, etc and can see the trending is really all I am saying. Is it fur whole picture, no. Yes I agree that 40-series in general overall numbers is probably losing to last gen RX 6000, and any remaining 30-series stock. Where that is not true is at the top end and the 4090 which seems to sale just fine. I guess my point being top end market still means something and can be a driving force in public perception of your product lineup as a whole whether you are buying top end or not. My overall point being that just trying to play the sweet spot value market hasn't really been a winning formula to drive any real market gain for AMD. It's been great for value gamers, but as AMD is even abandoning trying to be the value player by slotting into Nvidia's pricing, that prospect goes away until their own cards course correct in pricing (see 7900XT).

Just watch reddit and other places too. People are building stuff with 4090s. Like I said believe whatever you want. This is what I am observing in the real world. Because I can't provide you sales numbers you don't want to believe it, that's fine, but naive of what's going on even if you can't put a number to it. You know what we do have number on? Market share. AMD has done nothing but be completely uncompetitive in the flagship/top end space for a decade, basically everything between the last card that was (the 290X) and the recent card that was (6900XT/6950XT). What has that really done to their market share but shrink it over the past decade? AMD might get taken seriously again if they actually push to 1up Nvidia in features and performance, but either they can't or they won't. They seem perfectly content to just slot into Nvidia pricing stack, but still be overpriced at launch considering the deficiencies, and they don't seem to care. Gaming may be a big deal for AMD's business, but I suspect that's primarily console and dedicated GPU is probably near the bottom of what they give a crap about. It shows.

Believe whatever you want. You have no data and we provided you two observations. I'm not claiming we are providing data as I haven't given you any numbers, but I can say the following: My Micro center keeps accurate stock numbers on their website I watch stocks multiple times a week 4090s move 4080s sit lower stack moves slowly 4090s are the fastest moving 40-series cards RDNA2 cards are moving too Flux lives on the opposite side of the country from me, and sounds like he is seeing the same thing. Yeah its just two stores, but I think one can get an idea of what may be going on. As for Nvidia doing stock control, absolutely they are doing that. AI is their new cash cow. If consumer gaming cards aren't selling at the new prices asked and Nvidia is unwilling to lower their margins to price correct, then they are just going to move more silicon back to AI products and control stock of their only popular card (the 4090) so it doesn't drop in price.

I don't know man. They keep selling at my local Micro Center. I think in general the 40-series is a poor seller, but the 4090 while being the most expensive model, is also the only real gen on gen gain for minimal increase in MSRP. So the money/performance generational increase actually was decent on it. 4080 on the other hand had none of that. To your last point, I do agree here. AMD tends to do well if they can put a compelling offering with better value in the mid-range. If they don't skimp on VRAM and also provide a bit of a discount for the lack of better RT and DLSS, its a winner. Even last gen, the 6600XT and 6700XT were easy wins vs the Nvidia offerings at similar pricing.

Yeah well said. It's really been since joining this site and connecting with you all here that I've really gotten interested in overclocking, benching, etc. At some point I'll get brave and try volt modding and shunt modding. I mean I've never even delidded anything before but with the video @Bastiaan_NL put up of his 260, I will be trying it on the 275 I picked up for HWBot.

On mobile there are occasional pop down ads that block you from accessing the bell notifications because it covers it. Not immediately noticeable is the arrow to pop the ad back up. Will try to get a pic next time I see it.

For the team comp:

Yes this is called the reticle limit. For 4nm (which is a refined 5nm node to be clear, not real 4nm) are still a ways off from hitting that limit. I forget where I heard or saw this, but it sounds like when they presumably go to TSMC 3N next gen, that reticle limit massively goes down. Theoretically they can take advantage of advanced packaging technology to push the limit up but that will just add cost. EDIT: Sorry, on mobile, was not trying to double post.

Hope to have the bench up sometime this weekend. Will need a couple more parts for water cooling, but very close.

I think your mistake is limiting it to "gamers" as your demographic. Enthusiasts and gamers who will want the best every gen is a thing. Yes it's one data point but it makes sense. 4090 only got $100 increase over the 3090 MSRP, but a massive uploft in performance. On the other hand the 4080 got a $500 increase in MSRP, and everything else down the stack got gimped + price hike. Nobody is interested in those cards unless they have a budget (in which case I suspect many are considering cheap 6950XTs), or are looking for small/efficient like a 4070 for an SFF build or something.

My kinda tea.

I watch the stock numbers for my local Micro Center regularly. My store keeps them pretty accurate on their site for each card model. Its slowed down now because I think anyone in the market for a $1600+ GPU bought one by now, but until it hit that point, the 4090s were selling like hot cakes here while the lower tier Nvidia cards were sitting or moving much slower.

I get not everyone has a local brick and mortar selling 4090s but here they are constantly moving stock. 4080s, not so much. It's slowed down now, but 4090s have no problem selling.

I think everyone on this site who has a 4090 is running a custom BIOS.

This is where I think dedicated gaming graphics don't really matter in the grand scheme of things to them. The enthusiast in me who is hoping to learn volt and shunt modding totally agrees with you. Business wise, Lisa Su really turned that company around. So naturally you know how that's going to go.

Well thanks for your input. It seems you are going for a quantity methodology here. I get it, but also feel like the random LTT crap just hides actual member videos so that was my only concern. I don't feel like people are coming to EHW to find LTT videos so it just clutters and suppresses the actual videos you mention there are few of. I guess I am looking at it from a standpoint of we are in a niche area so its going to be niche on videos too. Honestly I didn't find a lot of the cooler videos @Bastiaan_NL put up because they were always forced out of rotation by random LTT, JayzTwoCents, or other stuff. I guess I am looking at it like that.

Yes. J7SC, Enterprise, Baastian, Neurotix are a few I am aware of running higher power bioses. I am sure there are others. Its really more common than you might think at that product tier. Yep, you've hit the nail on the head here, and this is why simply pricing AMD products into Nvidia's stack is a losing proposition. Its not just the raster performance level you have to compare, you're losing at pretty much all feature comparisons and obviously in RT as well just in gaming. You've brought up great points about workstation. And say what you want about RT, its clearly a big deal on the market at the enthusiast level. Anyway, I want to see AMD succeed, I was an ATI Radeon guy in the early 2000's, I would never even consider Nvidia back then. This was also back when they were the ones pushing the envelope. Would love to see them recapture that sort of mindshare and commitment for innovation, but for whatever reason AMD or Radeon Technology Group or whoever seems hell bent on not doing anything right to get there.

I bought the mug, but I don't actually drink coffee or caffeinated tea. Herbal teas once in a while, I also like Peppermint like @damric. I just in general do not drink caffeine much at all. Maybe 1 soda a week. The few times I tried coffee it gave me horrendous stomach pain, and while I am not a morning person, I do just get going when I get going, never felt a need for caffeine. I dabbled in energy drinks when I was working one horrendous job years ago and sometimes had to figure out how to stay awake till 4am even though I had started working at 7am that day and maybe got a 3 hour break in the evening. After that I was done with that stuff. It really is just worse soda. Anyway, its probably for the best. I've got acid reflux issues due to a hiatal hernia plus some other things, so could probably do without the acidity.

Well last I saw, Nvidia had something like 85% market share in the discrete GPU space. What AMD needs to do if they care at all about that space is figure out how to push marketshare gain. At this point they are going to be losing share to Intel Arc. The problem with the Radeon arm is this - so what if they made a 600W GPU. Nvidia does and nobody gives a crap in the enthusiast space. How many 4090 owners on this site alone are running 660W BIOS, or 1kw BIOS on some of their Ampere products? So I fail to see that as a reason. Which leads me to my next point - marketing. AMD does a piss poor job of marketing Radeon and so the general consumer just gets the idea that AMD is playing catchup to Nvidia in feature parity in things like RT and DLSS. They are right. Which leads to my last point - pricing. AMD thinks they can just slot into Nvidia pricing and somehow that's supposed to excite the market that currently has 85% Nvidia cards. What would have excited the market was a 4090 killer at $999. Sure its lacking in DLSS and RT parity but its also $600 cheaper and beats it in raster. That would be cool. But no, AMD fails to do anything excited to push marketshare once again.

OK, my personal opinions about EK aside, that was a good read and fantastic performance. Once again top notch formatting on the review too. I will need to learn your ways...

So that's probably primarily console - which makes sense. Dedicated GPU silicon for 7nm last gen was like lowest on AMD's priority list.

I can kinda understand that, but maybe should still be helpful guides or whatever, not random LTT videos. That really seems to be antithesis of member video submissions.

I was never claiming gaming wasn't important. Does that segment include Ryzen or is that only gaming graphics? If graphics though, very interesting, because that wasn't true 2 years ago.