Forums first comp: CPUz Benchmark

[Alastair]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Probably so. I was more concerned at the time about recovering what little thermal headroom there was back to at least stock level so I could move on to other things. At that point I was also disappointed to the extent that I was ready to get rid of everything so I could offset the cost of going back to Intel. So, my interest in trying to make it something worth keeping was starting to wane. The WHEA errors, USB drop-outs, modest CPU overclocking capabilities, FCLK limitations and crappy memory performance had pretty much ruined the experience to the point that reigniting my interest was probably going to be impossible.

Yeah that's the only kek thing about modern cpus. I yearn for the days of Sandy Bridge and Vishera overclockability again. But alas it doesn't matter in which platform you go with they are already run so hard fresh out the box. As far as I understand the numbers on the Intel side also aren't much better. A hundred mhz or two over the stock settings is the best anyone can expect from what I have heard. 

 

I'm also pretty irritated about the bclk limitations. Till a few weeks ago I was running a 101 bclk. Which gave me a LITTLE extra boost on the ryzen when the boost kicked in. But after I added another sata device I kept dropping drives. It just kinda irritated me. Like there is NO HEADROOM. Just nothing. I just let the PBO do its thing. Just unshackle it with the EDC1 bug and let it do its thing. My all core boost through PBO is only 25-50mhz (depending on which ccx you were looking at) lower than what I managed all core anyway. So blegh. I wasn't 25% PCs. 

 

Back in the day Ocing allowed your cheaper part to reach the level of a more expensive SKU. What does 5% on my 3800x get me? 3800xt territory? I wish I could at least get to 4.9 like some of the Zen3s.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Alastair

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

Eh that's the sort of testimonial I was looking for. So it's a pointless exercise. I wonder why though. Because damn these chiplets get hot. I just dream of seeing high 40s low 50s again like I used to do with my 300watt Vishera. It makes me shake my head.... Like 120watts and I struggle to keep this chip below 70. I've seen those offset mounting kits by der8uer for water blocks and wondered if I should bother. I am also on quite an old CPU block and wondered if upgrading to a new block might be worth it. 

I think a better water block is definitely worth considering. I had an OptimusPC foundation and an EK monoblock on the 5950X. They both worked well and produced equivalent results. The monoblock was gorgeous to look at, but I tinker with things often enough that I found it inconvenient. For a person that does not do a lot of messing with the hardware, the monoblock is probably the best bet because of enhanced aesthetics with no loss in cooling performance.

 

I have been a fan of OptimusPC blocks since they were first released. The Signature and Foundation blocks are excellent. I was using a Raystorm Pro block on my work desktop for a long time. I recently replaced it with a Signature block and saw immediate improvement in CPU load temps. Having owned 3 Intel (Signature and Foundation) and 1 AMD (Foundation) CPU blocks, I don't want to use anything else now. I actually prefer the Foundation block with the clear top so I can see if/when cleaning the jet plate is needed. The Signature block looks awesome, but it is solid metal and you cannot tell if the jet plate is collecting sediment or debris without taking it apart for inspection.

 

Here is a photo of the EK monoblock. I loved how it looked.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mr. Fox

[ArchStanton]

As a card-carrying member of "team red" (for the time being), I would like to add that the TechN and Heatkiller IV AM4 blocks are also worthy of consideration and likely easier to obtain.

[Sir Beregond]

I'm not a monoblock guy. From a practicality standpoint, the motherboards they are made for have good VRMs already and don't need one. And I've not seen a monoblock perform as well as a dedicated CPU block typically when I've read up about them, so that seems atypical.

[Mr. Fox]

13 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

I'm not a monoblock guy. From a practicality standpoint, the motherboards they are made for have good VRMs already and don't need one. And I've not seen a monoblock perform as well as a dedicated CPU block typically when I've read up about them, so that seems atypical.

I think it happened to fit just right. Temps were identical to the Foundation block and it worked surprisingly well. That was the only monoblock I had ever owned and I do not intend to buy another because mounting from the back of the motherboard and the extra screws for the VRM mounting are just too much of a pain in the butt to deal with. I take things apart frequently. That kind of design is far too much hassle to deal with no matter how well it works for a person that doesn't assemble their PC and leave things alone.

[Avacado]

3 hours ago, Alastair said:

Eh that's the sort of testimonial I was looking for. So it's a pointless exercise. I wonder why though. Because damn these chiplets get hot. I just dream of seeing high 40s low 50s again like I used to do with my 300watt Vishera. It makes me shake my head.... Like 120watts and I struggle to keep this chip below 70. I've seen those offset mounting kits by der8uer for water blocks and wondered if I should bother. I am also on quite an old CPU block and wondered if upgrading to a new block might be worth it. 

To say it's a pointless exercise for THAT CPU may hold true, but it most certainly does not for others. Bare die on my 9900k's dropped temps by 20-30c and a relid w/ LM on the 12900k by 10-15. 

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, Avacado said:

To say it's a pointless exercise for THAT CPU may hold true, but it most certainly does not for others. Bare die on my 9900k's dropped temps by 20-30c and a relid w/ LM on the 12900k by 10-15. 

100%. Bare die has been amazing in my experience as well. Nothing is better, even for a run-of-the-mill loop or an AIO cooling solution. Delid (except for the 5950X) with LM has also been a close second place enhancement. And, as well all know, all it takes sometimes is a 2-3°C improvement to mean the difference between throttling/malfunction when you are pushing everything to the edge of stability. All it takes is a couple of points on a benchmark run to move a score up in rank.

[Alastair]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I think a better water block is definitely worth considering. I had an OptimusPC foundation and an EK monoblock on the 5950X. They both worked well and produced equivalent results. The monoblock was gorgeous to look at, but I tinker with things often enough that I found it inconvenient. For a person that does not do a lot of messing with the hardware, the monoblock is probably the best bet because of enhanced aesthetics with no loss in cooling performance.

 

I have been a fan of OptimusPC blocks since they were first released. The Signature and Foundation blocks are excellent. I was using a Raystorm Pro block on my work desktop for a long time. I recently replaced it with a Signature block and saw immediate improvement in CPU load temps. Having owned 3 Intel (Signature and Foundation) and 1 AMD (Foundation) CPU blocks, I don't want to use anything else now. I actually prefer the Foundation block with the clear top so I can see if/when cleaning the jet plate is needed. The Signature block looks awesome, but it is solid metal and you cannot tell if the jet plate is collecting sediment or debris without taking it apart for inspection.

 

Here is a photo of the EK monoblock. I loved how it looked.

How much of a difference would a better block make though? 

 

Are we talking 5c over my Mesozoic Era XSPC Raystorm original. Or are we just talking about a degree or two here? I can't even remember how much of a difference Der8aur's bracket made. Cause I am thinking about getting that too. 

 

Currently in a heavy all core workload. Like Cinebench or Blender or something like that. At my present OC settings (PBO, 10X, +200MHz, EDC=1, -0.05v) at 4.4GHz boost across 16Threads I see. 65-70C. Or more accurately around 40C-45C delta over ambient. I can't see it improving much. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Alastair

[J7SC_Orion]

My first delid was a 5 giggles 1.3v 3770K - bare-die and LM pushed it way beyond that. I delidded a few other Intels since then, but no AMDs at this stage... and unlike @Mr. Fox, I love both the 3950X and 5950X...the latter even does DDR4 4000, but most of the time, I undervolt relevant parameters for DDR4 3800 CL14 for both chips.

 

Looking forward to LG1700 / DDR5 when the RAM I want releases. I probably delid it and use bare-die, but likely skip LM, just in case I want to freeze it. 

[Alastair]

7 minutes ago, J7SC_Orion said:

My first delid was a 5 giggles 1.3v 3770K - bare-die and LM pushed it way beyond that. I delidded a few other Intels since then, but no AMDs at this stage... and unlike @Mr. Fox, I love both the 3950X and 5950X...the latter even does DDR4 4000, but most of the time, I undervolt relevant parameters for DDR4 3800 CL14 for both chips.

 

Looking forward to LG1700 / DDR5 when the RAM I want releases. I probably delid it and use bare-die, but likely skip LM, just in case I want to freeze it. 

I wonder what the B-die of the DDR5 generation will be. 

[ArchStanton]

21 minutes ago, Alastair said:

I wonder what the B-die of the DDR5 generation will be.

[Avacado]

50 minutes ago, Alastair said:

How much of a difference would a better block make though? 

 

Are we talking 5c over my Mesozoic Era XSPC Raystorm original. Or are we just talking about a degree or two here? I can't even remember how much of a difference Der8aur's bracket made. Cause I am thinking about getting that too. 

 

Currently in a heavy all core workload. Like Cinebench or Blender or something like that. At my present OC settings (PBO, 10X, +200MHz, EDC=1, -0.05v) at 4.4GHz boost across 16Threads I see. 65-70C. Or more accurately around 40C-45C delta over ambient. I can't see it improving much. 

I'm assuming the picture in your sig rig is in question. I think fixing your airflow might be more beneficial. Do you have 3 intake fans at the front of that case in addition to the bottom 2 on top of the EK 240? What is your ambient?

Edited March 30, 2022 by Avacado

[Alastair]

47 minutes ago, Avacado said:

I'm assuming the picture in your sig rig is in question. I think fixing your airflow might be more beneficial. Do you have 3 intake fans at the front of that case in addition to the bottom 2 on top of the EK 240? What is your ambient?

There is nothing wrong with my airflow. I've checked how air flow through the system with a smoke machine. Its been set up with this for gosh darn about 8 years now. The only thing that changed was the fans themselves over the years. It is as follows: 

 

200mm CM Force 200 front intake

4x140mm Intake Push/pull on rad Corsair ML140s bottom 280 radiator. 

6x 120mm exhaust Push Pull Noiseblocker Eloop B12-4's on Top 360 radiator.

1x ML140 rear exhaust. 

 

with my smoke machine I am just on the bit on the positive pressure side of things. the 360 rad is fairly dense while the 280 isn't. 

 

So essentially:

The bottom 280 rad is an intake. (plenty of space at the bottom of the case they aren't choked)

200mm is front intake. 

360mm top rad is exhausting 

140mm rear is exhausting. 

 

How much airflow do you want? 

 

Me: Yes 

 

To give you an idea, pulling full cpu load and GPU load. Im pulling around 750 out the wall. Probably 650 to the components that matter. Vega 64 with OC is doing about 450w total board power. 

 

GPU Temps 32c core (7c-8c over ambient) / 42C HBM/ 55-65C hotspot

CPU temps 65C - 70C (40-45C over ambient) 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Alastair

[Avacado]

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

There is nothing wrong with my airflow. I've checked how air flow through the system with a smoke machine. Its been set up with this for gosh darn about 8 years now. The only thing that changed was the fans themselves over the years. It is as follows: 

 

200mm CM Force 200 front intake

4x140mm Intake Push/pull on rad Corsair ML140s bottom 280 radiator. 

6x 120mm exhaust Push Pull Noiseblocker Eloop B12-4's on Top 360 radiator.

1x ML140 rear exhaust. 

 

with my smoke machine I am just on the bit on the positive pressure side of things. the 360 rad is fairly dense while the 280 isn't. 

 

So essentially:

The bottom 280 rad is an intake. (plenty of space at the bottom of the case they aren't choked)

200mm is front intake. 

360mm top rad is exhausting 

140mm rear is exhausting. 

 

How much airflow do you want? 

 

Me: Yes 

 

To give you an idea, pulling full cpu load and GPU load. Im pulling around 750 out the wall. Probably 650 to the components that matter. Vega 64 with OC is doing about 450w total board power. 

 

GPU Temps 32c core (7c-8c over ambient) / 42C HBM/ 55-65C hotspot

CPU temps 65C - 70C (40-45C over ambient) 

 

Sounds good  No way to see the front 200mm. 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Alastair said:

How much of a difference would a better block make though? 

 

Are we talking 5c over my Mesozoic Era XSPC Raystorm original. Or are we just talking about a degree or two here? I can't even remember how much of a difference Der8aur's bracket made. Cause I am thinking about getting that too. 

 

Currently in a heavy all core workload. Like Cinebench or Blender or something like that. At my present OC settings (PBO, 10X, +200MHz, EDC=1, -0.05v) at 4.4GHz boost across 16Threads I see. 65-70C. Or more accurately around 40C-45C delta over ambient. I can't see it improving much. 

In my case the load temperatures were about 6-8°C cooler with the OptimusPC block versus the Raystorm Pro. Idle temperatures were affected less, maybe 2-3°C. That was with an Intel 10th Gen setup, so it may not translate the same with AM4.

3 hours ago, Alastair said:

I wonder what the B-die of the DDR5 generation will be. 

Right now the best IC for DDR5 overclocking is SK Hynix. That was definitely not true with DDR4. Samsung B-die was, by far, the best IC  on DDR4 and SK Hynix was not good.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mr. Fox

[Alastair]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

In my case the load temperatures were about 6-8°C cooler with the OptimusPC block versus the Raystorm Pro. Idle temperatures were affected less, maybe 2-3°C. That was with an Intel 10th Gen setup, so it may not translate the same with AM4.

Right now the best IC for DDR5 overclocking is SK Hynix. That was definitely not true with DDR4. Samsung B-die was, by far, the best IC  on DDR4 and SK Hynix was not good.

I would love to get my hands on one of those Optimus blocks. They look great. They really do. But I won't. Firstly I don't think they would ship to the @ss end of Africa. Hardly anyone does these days. And secondly. I would be spending over 100USD for maybe 5c-10c and possibly 50mhz-100mhz more boost clocks. (although admittedly 100usd these days wont get you as much in the pc space as what 100 got you three years ago) 

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Alastair said:

I would love to get my hands on one of those Optimus blocks. They look great. They really do. But I won't. Firstly I don't think they would ship to the @ss end of Africa. Hardly anyone does these days. And secondly. I would be spending over 100USD for maybe 5c-10c and possibly 50mhz-100mhz more boost clocks. (although admittedly 100usd these days wont get you as much in the pc space as what 100 got you three years ago) 

I am nearly 60 years old and I don't remember ever seeing things as messed up as they are now. Sleepy Joe and his insane clown posse have really done a number on us. It's going to be difficult to recover from the multi-faceted damage. So yeah, $100 USD buys less than ever.

[Alastair]

34 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am nearly 60 years old and I don't remember ever seeing things as messed up as they are now. Sleepy Joe and his insane clown posse have really done a number on us. It's going to be difficult to recover from the multi-faceted damage. So yeah, $100 USD buys less than ever.

Yeah so maybe 100 bucks isn't all that bad for some more mhz. I'd have to pay alot more for a cpu upgrade anyway... Besides. If I can reuse an optimus block like I have been able to on my Raystorm (gosh this thing must 9 years old by now) it wouldn't be a bad investment. 

[Alastair]

I know its not CPU-z but pushing some scores in cinebench too. Trying to compete in the HWBOT Div2 challenge. 

 

I managed to get the fastest 3800x in 1T for R23 @ 1373

5th place 3800x R23 @ 14117

And 2386 R15. I was trying so hard to hit 2412 so that I could take 17th in stage 2

[J7SC_Orion]

56 minutes ago, Alastair said:

I know its not CPU-z but pushing some scores in cinebench too. Trying to compete in the HWBOT Div2 challenge. 

 

I managed to get the fastest 3800x in 1T for R23 @ 1373

5th place 3800x R23 @ 14117

And 2386 R15. I was trying so hard to hit 2412 so that I could take 17th in stage 2

 

Nice work !
FYI, I don't know of your Gigabyte Aorus Pro has s.th. like 'fMax' (per Asus X570 CH8) but that would help a bit w/ single score Cinebench (on Ryzen 3K, not 5K). Also, on my 3950X, I run a very slight undervolt offset (-0.00625) for best results, stock bios settings otherwise.

[Alastair]

4 minutes ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

Nice work !
FYI, I don't know of your Gigabyte Aorus Pro has s.th. like 'fMax' (per Asus X570 CH8) but that would help a bit w/ single score Cinebench (on Ryzen 3K, not 5K). Also, on my 3950X, I run a very slight undervolt offset (-0.00625) for best results, stock bios settings otherwise.

fMax? Is it like the PBO Offset? Where you can add 200mhz to the PBO offset so the CPU could if it was a perfect world boost 200MHz above the stock max boost? If so then yes. I run un undervolt of 0.05v for my PBO oc. Scores and "effective clocks" scale up until there and start to drop off after after -0.05625v. I achieved the all core results with a static 4.5GHz but that required a whopping 1.525v which was taking me to 180w power and a BLISTERING 90C on water. I am seriously trying to think of ways to improve my thermal performance as much as I can with my current block. I am wondering if taking the dremel out and attempting my own "micro fins" into the block is a good idea. (probably not)

[J7SC_Orion]

41 minutes ago, Alastair said:

fMax? Is it like the PBO Offset? Where you can add 200mhz to the PBO offset so the CPU could if it was a perfect world boost 200MHz above the stock max boost? If so then yes. I run un undervolt of 0.05v for my PBO oc. Scores and "effective clocks" scale up until there and start to drop off after after -0.05625v. I achieved the all core results with a static 4.5GHz but that required a whopping 1.525v which was taking me to 180w power and a BLISTERING 90C on water. I am seriously trying to think of ways to improve my thermal performance as much as I can with my current block. I am wondering if taking the dremel out and attempting my own "micro fins" into the block is a good idea. (probably not)

 

fMax by the Stilt in the Asus Bios is s.th. slightly different from adding boost in the bios, though related - but it doesn't apply to most other mobos.

 

180W / 90C / 1.525v ? Wow. Yeah, if you can get temps down into the high 70s / low 80s that should help.

[ArchStanton]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

fMax

I think he said he uses the "EDC bug".  I am very far from 100%, but I think they may do something very similar to one another and/or possibly conflict?

[Alastair]

54 minutes ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

fMax by the Stilt in the Asus Bios is s.th. slightly different from adding boost in the bios, though related - but it doesn't apply to most other mobos.

 

180W / 90C / 1.525v ? Wow. Yeah, if you can get temps down into the high 70s / low 80s that should help.

Could you provide any more information? I'd be very interested investigating this avenue to see if there is anything similar for Aorus mobos. 

 

 

Yeah. My cpu and block are already lapped. I'm using Coolermaster Master gel Maker Nano (gosh what a mouthful Coolermaster and their masters) paste which is = to kryonaut. I've still got some conductonaut LM. Maybe at my next rebuild I'll seal around the package so that nothing leaks out and switch to LM. I don't know what else to do to improve thermals. 

44 minutes ago, ArchStanton said:

I think he said he uses the "EDC bug".  I am very far from 100%, but I think they may do something very similar to one another and/or possibly conflict?

I think we are talking about different things. But I am using the EDC bug. 

[Alastair]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

fMax by the Stilt in the Asus Bios is s.th. slightly different from adding boost in the bios, though related - but it doesn't apply to most other mobos.

 

180W / 90C / 1.525v ? Wow. Yeah, if you can get temps down into the high 70s / low 80s that should help.

I had a quick oogle about the Google. And it is only for asus boards. But won't help me much as it wouldn't work with the EDC=1 bug. And from what I can gather doesn't increase performance by as much of a margin. I don't seem to see anything similar for gigabyte boards. I wish zen 2 owners got the curve optimiser in a microcode update.