toms hardware RTX 4090 Woes Get Worse: Native 16-Pin Reportedly Melts as Well

[ENTERPRISE]

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By now, you may have read many horror stories about Nvidia's 16-pin power adapter melting on the GeForce RTX 4090. However, the terror doesn't stop there. A GeForce RTX 4090 owner (via Reddit(opens in new tab)) has reported the first alleged case of a 12VHPWR power connector meltdown from a native ATX 3.0 power supply.

Source

 

First time I have heard of a native connector issue. I wonder what contributing factors there are and if it is "An issue" or outlier. Time will tell I guess. 

[J7SC_Orion]

9 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Source

 

First time I have heard of a native connector issue. I wonder what contributing factors there are and if it is "An issue" or outlier. Time will tell I guess. 

 

...latest 'suggestion' in several forums relates to the connector (even a native 12VHPWR one) not being fully inserted. 

[ENTERPRISE]

5 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

...latest 'suggestion' in several forums relates to the connector (even a native 12VHPWR one) not being fully inserted. 

I could see user error being a factor for sure. 

[schuck6566]

4 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

I could see user error being a factor for sure. 

The size of the cards and placement of the plugs almost BEGS for an issue with plugging them in in most standard cases. Add trying to get any kind of cable management and I can see quite a few people having problems... It's almost like Nvidia designed them to fail easily then just threw the "don't bend cable" warning on them to cover their asses so they wouldn't have to replace them when people screwed up,and could just charge for new or possibly repairs if possible. Even more income from the same cards.

[J7SC_Orion]

... This > is what I was referring to above re. not fully inserted connector. In any a case, there's also this 

[ENTERPRISE]

2 hours ago, schuck6566 said:

The size of the cards and placement of the plugs almost BEGS for an issue with plugging them in in most standard cases. Add trying to get any kind of cable management and I can see quite a few people having problems... It's almost like Nvidia designed them to fail easily then just threw the "don't bend cable" warning on them to cover their asses so they wouldn't have to replace them when people screwed up,and could just charge for new or possibly repairs if possible. Even more income from the same cards.

Yeah, the design IMHO is rushed and not well thought out. If I have to avoid bending a cable so it does not melt/catch fire...then you have designed something incorrectly, no excuse. 

[Sir Beregond]

Seems dumb to me that they didn't just orient the connector like how they did the 12-pins on Ampere. No hard turn here.

 

(My 3080 Ti FE with a modDIY adapter for reference), please excuse the dust on the side panel.

 

I will say it takes extra effort to ensure its full seated though. Its not as easy or obvious like with an 8-pin or 6-pin. I think this 12/16-pin design needs some work.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Sir Beregond

[J7SC_Orion]

1 hour ago, Sir Beregond said:

Seems dumb to me that they didn't just orient the connector like how they did the 12-pins on Ampere. No hard turn here.

 

(My 3080 Ti FE with a modDIY adapter for reference), please excuse the dust on the side panel.

 

I will say it takes extra effort to ensure its full seated though. Its not as easy or obvious like with an 8-pin or 6-pin. I think this 12/16-pin design needs some work.

 

 

 

...side-mounted connector would have been easier in some cases, but the 4090s air-coolers (unlike PCB) are way too big lengthwise - even w/o side-mounted connector, they don't even fit in many cases unless water-cooled (much shorter). Anyway, My 4-into-1 dongle is securely inserted and attached, and I am also getting 2 sets of 12VHPWR native cables delivered this week.

[ThatDudeFishing]

They're trying to push 12x12V through a smaller 6x12V connector. It's half the surface area, half the wires, less than half the grounds, and you have to account for de-rating (less amps per pin) due to the pins being closer together. It's obvious this connector is not up to the task.

 

A better solution would be replace the 8-pin PCIe connector with the 8-pin EPS12V. It's capable of just under 300W, more if thicker cables are used.

 

Or is use XT60 connectors. The board mount version are rated for 30A, or 360W. These connectors are smaller than the 8-pin. They're a much tighter fit. They don't need a clip to stay in place. Only downside is you need 12awg wire to handle the current. The normal copper wire is really stiff, and the silicone fine stranded wire is kinda expensive, but you only need two per connector.

[bonami2]

Wonder if their is any reason modern motherboard don't run on 24-48-60v instead?  I mean it would require smaller wiring and pcb trace no?

 

 

[J7SC_Orion]

1 hour ago, bonami2 said:

Wonder if their is any reason modern motherboard don't run on 24-48-60v instead?  I mean it would require smaller wiring and pcb trace no?

 

 

 

...just like more car systems are being switched to 48V, that would make sense. But in any case, folks seem to forget that the 12VHPWR connector is an Intel spec (below, incl. 600W). The real issue is that it wasn't introduced very well by NVidia, and apart from some quality problems with the (temporary) 4-into-1 dongle, there also seem to be a lot of cases where the connector was not plugged in all the way on the card side and lock in with the hooks, leading to aforementioned issues. That could be because of quality issues (such as production tolerances) or other reasons, such as user error out of an overabundance of caution, ironically.

 

 

[schuck6566]

5 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

...just like more car systems are being switched to 48V, that would make sense. But in any case, folks seem to forget that the 12VHPWR connector is an Intel spec (below, incl. 600W). The real issue is that it wasn't introduced very well by NVidia, and apart from some quality problems with the (temporary) 4-into-1 dongle, there also seem to be a lot of cases where the connector was not plugged in all the way on the card side and lock in with the hooks, leading to aforementioned issues. That could be because of quality issues (such as production tolerances) or other reasons, such as user error out of an overabundance of caution, ironically.

 

 

 

That's not the first dog Intel has tried to get people to adopt then finally been forced to concede they were wrong, just look how long they stuck with RDRAM (1999 to 2003 I believe?) When SDRAM was cheaper and just as fast or in some cases faster after DDR came along.

 

RDRAM - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by schuck6566

[J7SC_Orion]

2 hours ago, schuck6566 said:

 

That's not the first dog Intel has tried to get people to adopt then finally been forced to concede they were wrong, just look how long they stuck with RDRAM (1999 to 2003 I believe?) When SDRAM was cheaper and just as fast or in some cases faster after DDR came along.

 

RDRAM - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

 

I agree that sometimes, Intel tries to push certain 'innovations' that aren't useful, nor accepted by the marketplace. Still, Intel's specs basically rule modern motherboard design, and there is also the increasing legislative push that may affect power consumption (re. emissions). On the 12VHPWR native connector, there are a lot of new PSUs coming out with that via ATX 3.0 spec. 

[schuck6566]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

I agree that sometimes, Intel tries to push certain 'innovations' that aren't useful, nor accepted by the marketplace. Still, Intel's specs basically rule modern motherboard design, and there is also the increasing legislative push that may affect power consumption (re. emissions). On the 12VHPWR native connector, there are a lot of new PSUs coming out with that via ATX 3.0 spec. 

I agree,but like before,if there isn't as large a demand for the new connector as for 2-3 8pin connector PSU's then the new psu's may just fall to the wayside like RDRAM did because "If we can't sell it,what are we gonna do with it?" and if AMD keeps making their GPU's with the old setups there will continue to be a demand for the old style psu's. Even intel is still using the old power connectors on their video cards so the only demand for the new socket is really the Nvidia cards at least for another year or two.

[J7SC_Orion]

16 minutes ago, schuck6566 said:

I agree,but like before,if there isn't as large a demand for the new connector as for 2-3 8pin connector PSU's then the new psu's may just fall to the wayside like RDRAM did because "If we can't sell it,what are we gonna do with it?" and if AMD keeps making their GPU's with the old setups there will continue to be a demand for the old style psu's. Even intel is still using the old power connectors on their video cards so the only demand for the new socket is really the Nvidia cards at least for another year or two.

 

I am not defending Intel's (and NVidia's) decision making...fyi, below is a 7 month old vid from Linus Tech that lays things out for those who are interested. That said, if you want to go beyond 450 W / 520 W (ie. spec for 600 W) as a vendor selling to the public, you can't rely on / legally use the old PCIe 8 pins - unless you use 4 of them - per certification process ! It is another discussion if we actually need 600 W GPUs...

 

For the record, I am thrilled with the RTX 4090, and while its 4-into-1 dongle can have issues if quality control was out to lunch or the user did not seat it properly (two separate issues), I was careful and have no problems with it (apart from dedicated 12VHPWR cables arriving this week for my Seasonic Platinum PX 1300W). Also keep in mind that the 4-into-1 dongle actually runs with up to 4x PCIe 8 pins, so the PCIe 8 pins are still 'in play', anyway. ATX 3.0 PSUs will be 'fully native 12 VHPWR' at both ends. 

 

 

[Sir Beregond]

I'm curious now. I think the Ampere 12-pin connector was Nvidia made, not actually the 12VHPWR like this 16-pin is (I could be wrong). Anyway, I don't remember Ampere cards having these melting issues whether FE cards, or the 3090 Ti. Has anyone seen anything on these? It just seems to be 4090's?

[J7SC_Orion]

...one of two custom cables for RTX 4090 / Seasonic P.Plat. PX 1300, the other (black) is a free upgrade by Seasonic but hasn't arrived yet.

 

[schuck6566]

I have an honest question,how many PSU's actually have 4 PCI-e 8 pin outputs? Most I've looked at from EVGA all have 3,Even a 1600 watt one. Is there another line that can be used for the forth input? I saw "1 AC line" listed but no mention of number of pins or what rail. Is the AC line the power cord? This gets confusing for people who don't do this often. lol

Edited November 13, 2022 by schuck6566

[J7SC_Orion]

4 hours ago, schuck6566 said:

I have an honest question,how many PSU's actually have 4 PCI-e 8 pin outputs? Most I've looked at from EVGA all have 3,Even a 1600 watt one. Is there another line that can be used for the forth input? I saw "1 AC line" listed but no mention of number of pins or what rail. Is the AC line the power cord? This gets confusing for people who don't do this often. lol

 

...several hi-po PSUs (ie. some Superflower / Leadtek) have 9x or so...and below is a pic of the back of the PX 1300 I use. I also just finished the water-block conversion of the 4090 and installed the new cable today - system still needs a lot of clean-up re. tubing and wiring...just doing heat-cycling right now...

 

 

[schuck6566]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

...several hi-po PSUs (ie. some Superflower / Leadtek) have 9x or so...and below is a pic of the back of the PX 1300 I use. I also just finished the water-block conversion of the 4090 and installed the new cable today - system still needs a lot of clean-up re. tubing and wiring...just doing heat-cycling right now...

 

 

yeah,when I pull the EVGA ones up new they show more connectors. Don't know why the refurbs only have the 3 vga cables listed but they show up to 9 on the new 1's. even more to worry about if I was upgrading.