videocardz 'NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER listed with AD103 GPU and new Device ID (Rumor)

[bonami2]

Quote

Before we get to the leak, one must understand what the PCI ID Repository is and how it works. The website is maintained by a group of individuals who can submit new entries using their knowledge and available leaked information. Occasionally, third parties with non-public data, like in the case of the GeForce RTX 40 Laptop GPU series, update the database. In other instances, the list is updated by maintainers based on the latest driver entries.

T4CFantasy, a TechPowerUP GPU database maintainer, holds access to early GPU BIOS and GPU-Z validations. This source has proven to be noteworthy, though these entries may not always represent the final SKU. Nevertheless, considering the circulating rumors about a potential RTX 4080 SUPER candidate with an AD103 GPU, such an entry should certainly not be dismissed.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-super-listed-with-ad103-gpu-and-new-device-id

[Sir Beregond]

AD103 is disappointing. Just continues my theory that there won't be a 4080 Ti based on AD102.

 

Still not sure what's to be gained in AD103. If I recall, the 4080 was maybe only 5% cut down from full chip. I suppose they could also use faster GDDR6X too, maybe 24Gbps?

 

But maybe the bigger news here is they'll price correct?

[UltraMega]

6 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

But maybe the bigger news here is they'll price correct?

 

[bonami2]

(NOTHING) 

Edited October 28, 2023 by bonami2

[Sir Beregond]

8 hours ago, UltraMega said:

 

I mean, let's think about at least 2 of these SKUs. I don't think the 4080 has any hope here. Even if they do a Super and drop it to $1k I'd still call it too much unless it was AD102 based at 20GB. If it still stays on AD103, 16GB, then yeah, still a bad buy in my opinion.

 

But let's say they discontinue the 4070 and 4070 Ti. If they do a 4070 Super (replacing the 4070) at same or lower price that is basically a slightly worse 4070 Ti, that could be good for the $550ish market. If they want to compete with the 7800 XT, they could also drop it at $500, which again, is a win as well. Basically almost a 4070 Ti for $500 instead of $800.

 

But I think the winner here would be if they replace the 4070 Ti with a Super variant (not sure what you call it, 4070 Ti Super LOL?). The kicker would be if they use AD103 with 16GB, that could essentially be a slightly worse 4080 at a substantially lower price to the $1200 4080. Plus its 16GB vs 12GB.

 

I don't know. Just speculating here. I have no idea what they are going to do.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[UltraMega]

8 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

I mean, let's think about at least 2 of these SKUs. I don't think the 4080 has any hope here. Even if they do a Super and drop it to $1k I'd still call it too much unless it was AD102 based at 20GB. If it still stays on AD103, 16GB, then yeah, still a bad buy in my opinion.

 

But let's say they discontinue the 4070 and 4070 Ti. If they do a 4070 Super (replacing the 4070) at same or lower price that is basically a slightly worse 4070 Ti, that could be good for the $550ish market. If they want to compete with the 7800 XT, they could also drop it at $500, which again, is a win as well. Basically almost a 4070 Ti for $500 instead of $800.

 

But I think the winner here would be if they replace the 4070 Ti with a Super variant (not sure what you call it, 4070 Ti Super LOL?). The kicker would be if they use AD103 with 16GB, that could essentially be a slightly worse 4080 at a substantially lower price to the $1200 4080. Plus its 16GB vs 12GB.

 

I don't know. Just speculating here. I have no idea what they are going to do.

I think a 16GB 4070 refresh and a 20GB 4080 refresh are very likely what we'll get. But will it price correct? Maybe the 4070 will be competitive, but I don't see the 4080 dropping to a reasonable price. 

[Sir Beregond]

1 hour ago, UltraMega said:

I think a 16GB 4070 refresh and a 20GB 4080 refresh are very likely what we'll get. But will it price correct? Maybe the 4070 will be competitive, but I don't see the 4080 dropping to a reasonable price. 

I don't think that will happen. For one, they keep selling 4090's. Secondly cutdown AD102 dies are being used for much higher priced RTX 5000 Ada. They literally have no incentive to release any AD102 based product cheaper than the 4090 when they already have a product for cut down AD102 which sells for $7k. An AD103 based refresh can't be 20gb as the memory controller of that silicon is maxed at 256-bit.

 

The price correction here would be in what you are getting. If a 4070 refresh is at the same price but functionally almost a 4070 Ti in performance, that's a big price correction on performance per dollar.

 

Also I believe they'd discontinue the $1200 4080 with whatever they refresh it with as it simply doesn't sell in any volume...which is why I don't think it's an AD102 20GB 4080 Ti refresh. That said, I don't think whatever refresh for it would sell well either unless they dropped it to like $700-$800 personally. Not sure they'd do that.

 

Again all speculation on my part, but I am seeing this as similar to 20-series which like the 40-series, on launch had terrible price/chip tiering especially for the 2070 (on TU106 lol). 2080 and 2070 got replaced by their Super counterparts and the 2070 Super corrected to TU104 silicon and almost as good as a 2080, with the 2060 Super being almost as good as the 2070. So you functionally got the original launch card performance for a tier down in price.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[UltraMega]

1 hour ago, Sir Beregond said:

I don't think that will happen. For one, they keep selling 4090's. Secondly cutdown AD102 dies are being used for much higher priced RTX 5000 Ada. They literally have no incentive to release any AD102 based product cheaper than the 4090 when they already have a product for cut down AD102 which sells for $7k. An AD103 based refresh can't be 20gb as the memory controller of that silicon is maxed at 256-bit.

 

The price correction here would be in what you are getting. If a 4070 refresh is at the same price but functionally almost a 4070 Ti in performance, that's a big price correction on performance per dollar.

 

Also I believe they'd discontinue the $1200 4080 with whatever they refresh it with as it simply doesn't sell in any volume...which is why I don't think it's an AD102 20GB 4080 Ti refresh. That said, I don't think whatever refresh for it would sell well either unless they dropped it to like $700-$800 personally. Not sure they'd do that.

 

Again all speculation on my part, but I am seeing this as similar to 20-series which like the 40-series, on launch had terrible price/chip tiering especially for the 2070 (on TU106 lol). 2080 and 2070 got replaced by their Super counterparts and the 2070 Super corrected to TU104 silicon and almost as good as a 2080, with the 2060 Super being almost as good as the 2070. So you functionally got the original launch card performance for a tier down in price.

Maybe you're right but IMO if they refresh some cards without giving them more ram, that would seem kinda pointless. 

[Sir Beregond]

32 minutes ago, UltraMega said:

Maybe you're right but IMO if they refresh some cards without giving them more ram, that would seem kinda pointless. 

I think whatever refreshes the 12GB 4070 Ti will probably be 16GB on AD103.

 

I 100% agree with you on the 80-class card, seems kinda dumb. But...if they did drop the price of the 4080's refresh card considerably, I wouldn't call it entirely pointless.

 

Anyway I am predicting:

 

4080 Super -> full AD103 with faster G6X?, still 16GB, price drop, 4080 discontinued

4070 Ti Super -> AD103 instead of AD104 so core count cut down from current 4080, 16GB instead of 12GB, no idea pricing - depends on what they do with 4080 Super I'd guess, 4070 Ti discontinued

4070 Super -> AD104, 12GB still, core count slightly cut down from current 4070 Ti, again not sure pricing, maybe replaces 4070 price point, not sure if they discontinue 4070 or just drop price

 

That's what I am going with. The only reason to do a Super refresh is to price correct without officially actually dropping prices of current models as far as I can tell.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[UltraMega]

1 hour ago, Sir Beregond said:

I think whatever refreshes the 12GB 4070 Ti will probably be 16GB on AD103.

 

I 100% agree with you on the 80-class card, seems kinda dumb. But...if they did drop the price of the 4080's refresh card considerably, I wouldn't call it entirely pointless.

 

Anyway I am predicting:

 

4080 Super -> full AD103 with faster G6X?, still 16GB, price drop, 4080 discontinued

4070 Ti Super -> AD103 instead of AD104 so core count cut down from current 4080, 16GB instead of 12GB, no idea pricing - depends on what they do with 4080 Super I'd guess, 4070 Ti discontinued

4070 Super -> AD104, 12GB still, core count slightly cut down from current 4070 Ti, again not sure pricing, maybe replaces 4070 price point, not sure if they discontinue 4070 or just drop price

 

That's what I am going with. The only reason to do a Super refresh is to price correct without officially actually dropping prices of current models as far as I can tell.

 

I sort of doubt there will be a 4070 TI super and a 4070 super, but the notion of a 16GB 4070 tier card should really be their main goal. If they can get a reasonably priced 16GB card out, it will really close the gap in their line-up that AMD is pushing through. If they refresh the 4080 without giving it more ram, they might as well not even do it (but it sounds like they're going to anyway). 

It would be great to see a price competitive 16GB card from Nvidia, then we could start seeing some real pricing competition from both parties rather than it being just DLSS type features and skimpy ram vs non-skimpy ram. 

[Sir Beregond]

4 hours ago, UltraMega said:

 

I sort of doubt there will be a 4070 TI super and a 4070 super,

I don't agree. The 4070 and 4070 Ti are both cards that are mis-priced and mis-branded, so Super refreshes can fix that.

[rares495]

Let's point and laugh at all the morons who bought regular 4080s.

[bonami2]

2 hours ago, rares495 said:

Let's point and laugh at all the morons who bought regular 4080s.

 So true. 4080 ti-super may be my future card. Only if it get the 4090 die and 20gb. If not 7900xtx or next gen.

[Sir Beregond]

5 hours ago, rares495 said:

Let's point and laugh at all the morons who bought regular 4080s.

 

[Avacado]

1 hour ago, Sir Beregond said:

 

[rares495]

5 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

 

 

 

Congratulations. You have found the joke.

[bonami2]

1 hour ago, rares495 said:

 

Congratulations. You have found the joke.

I missed it. But that nvidia fault we are stuck with those.

[Slaughtahouse]

Unless they refresh the price (significantly) or offer a bigger bus (256-bit) on the 70 / 60ti series cards... just keep skipping. No

 

5000 series is predicted in 2025 so just keep that in mind with likely another DLSS feature soft locked by the card. Predict more laughing if you buy a 4080 Super late next year. 

[Sir Beregond]

1 hour ago, Slaughtahouse said:

Unless they refresh the price (significantly) or offer a bigger bus (256-bit) on the 70 / 60ti series cards... just keep skipping. No

 

5000 series is predicted in 2025 so just keep that in mind with likely another DLSS feature soft locked by the card. Predict more laughing if you buy a 4080 Super late next year. 

I think you'd almost have to do both. If the 70 or 70 Ti Super gets put on AD103, then that should be a 256-bit card. And I think you almost have to drop prices as the 7800 XT sells like hot cakes at $499 and the 4080 at $1200 doesn't sell much at all.

[Slaughtahouse]

14 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

I think you'd almost have to do both. If the 70 or 70 Ti Super gets put on AD103, then that should be a 256-bit card. And I think you almost have to drop prices as the 7800 XT sells like hot cakes at $499 and the 4080 at $1200 doesn't sell much at all.

For sure! I wrote "OR" because... Nvidia. They won't let us have our cake and eat it too.  Super comes in, bigger bus, more VRAM, at least the same price, ideally lower, and the rest of the stack adjusts but truth is price will likely be higher and current stack stays the same. 

 

They're rolling in all the AI money to care right now about enthusiasts / gamers.