apple insider Microsoft to overtake Apple as most valuable company

[UltraMega]

Quote

MarketWatch notes that Microsoft's stock rose 57% in 2023, compared to Apple's which rose 48%. Microsoft shares have also reportedly seen what are described as slimmer losses at the start of 2024.

 

Apple, on the other hand, has seen its shares take a considerable drop in recent days. The first hit was taken following a claim by Barclays that iPhone demand is weakening and that the iPhone 16 range will not offer any compelling new features to tempt upgraders.

 

The analyst view that Apple is dependent on iPhone sales is part of why Microsoft is doing better. Analysts see Microsoft has being less attached to any hardware, and more attached to subscription software such as Office 365, and so therefore less attached to any falling demand for phones or computers.

 

And, Microsoft has launched an AI tool in Copilot, while Apple has not unveiled any similar ChatGPT-style app or service. Analysts appear to be ignoring that Apple has been using AI for many years, under the name Machine Learning, though, and also that it is never first to a market, even ones that it later comes to dominate.

Microsoft poised to overtake Apple as most valuable company -- again

APPLEINSIDER.COM

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As Microsoft stock rises and Apple's falls over analysts expectation of slowing iPhone demand, the two firms are...

 

 

Microsoft actually overtook Apple briefly yesterday for a short time before Apple regain ground. The two are neck and neck now, but Microsoft is growing faster. Seems inevitable that Microsoft will overtake Apple and be able to maintain that position for a while at least this time. 

 

Right now Microsoft is at 2.88T vs Apple at 2.89T.

 

[UltraMega]

Microsoft (MSFT) - Market capitalization

COMPANIESMARKETCAP.COM

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As of January 2024 Microsoft has a market cap of $2.883 Trillion. This makes Microsoft the world's most valuable company according to our data.

 

 

Microsoft is now ahead. 

Edited January 12 by UltraMega

[ENTERPRISE]

Not surprising, I mean considering the different revenue streams Microsoft have going and the fact that the Apple fandom IMHO is and has been slowly dying off for a little while now. So many people I used to know who used to be die hard apple fans have woken up to the fact you do not need to pay Apple prices to get a good experience and are now subsequently all on Android on varying device types. 

 

 

[Sir Beregond]

10 minutes ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Not surprising, I mean considering the different revenue streams Microsoft have going and the fact that the Apple fandom IMHO is and has been slowly dying off for a little while now. So many people I used to know who used to be die hard apple fans have woken up to the fact you do not need to pay Apple prices to get a good experience and are now subsequently all on Android on varying device types. 

 

 

Yeah, well in many respects Apple really is just a fandom/fashion accessory. The whole ridiculousness around blue/green bubbles comes to mind, and there's your average Apple user. They've certainly managed to build a huge business on this, but eventually you reach a point where what else is there to do. Has the iPhone drastically changed much or provided anything meaningfully innovative in recent years? No. Apple Silicon sure helped Macbook, but aside from your existing demographics of Macbook users, is there anything else to draw people in?

 

Microsoft on the other hand has sufficiently diversified their business into multiple revenue streams. I obviously don't agree with everything Microsoft is doing on Windows side of the house, but it cannot be denied that they are certainly making good business choices with AI, cloud, and other things.

[UltraMega]

1 hour ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Not surprising, I mean considering the different revenue streams Microsoft have going and the fact that the Apple fandom IMHO is and has been slowly dying off for a little while now. So many people I used to know who used to be die hard apple fans have woken up to the fact you do not need to pay Apple prices to get a good experience and are now subsequently all on Android on varying device types. 

 

 

 

Certainly true that as smartphones get more powerful, the need to spend a lot on one just to get a decent experience becomes less and less. I don't see myself upgrading my ~$200 LG Velvet 5G until it breaks. 

 

1 hour ago, Sir Beregond said:

Yeah, well in many respects Apple really is just a fandom/fashion accessory. The whole ridiculousness around blue/green bubbles comes to mind, and there's your average Apple user. They've certainly managed to build a huge business on this, but eventually you reach a point where what else is there to do. Has the iPhone drastically changed much or provided anything meaningfully innovative in recent years? No. Apple Silicon sure helped Macbook, but aside from your existing demographics of Macbook users, is there anything else to draw people in?

 

Microsoft on the other hand has sufficiently diversified their business into multiple revenue streams. I obviously don't agree with everything Microsoft is doing on Windows side of the house, but it cannot be denied that they are certainly making good business choices with AI, cloud, and other things.

 

Kinda replying to your other post in the necro thread about Apple M1 here; Apple has made a lot of meaningful advancements with their chips, and they are even running a few real games now with Resident Evil games coming out on Macs and iPhones. But as I understand it, and I could be wrong here, most of Apple's advantages with their chips come from being first in line for the best nodes TSMC can make and not necessarily from them purely being more innovative. Their deep pockets have definitely had some advantages. But it does seem like they've lacked focus in the last few years. Their VR headset is unlikely to have meaningful sales given that it will be over 3 grand and require an eye appointment. At that price, it seems like it competes with something like HoloLens which also seems to be a pretty niche device. 

 

I just posted some news about this new Rabbit OS thing that is aiming to be an AI driven digital assistant to outperform something like Siri, and I can't help but think that turning Siri into a much better AI driven assistant should have been something Apple was highly focused on. It would have felt like a good natural progression of their tech. The VR headset, as impressive as it is, feels like a desperate attempt to make something innovative again. I think Steve Jobs understood that Apple innovates best when it innovates on products that can have mass appeal at an (arguably) reasonable price. Apple no longer makes much headway in that space and just continues to make more and more powerful versions of the same things. 

 

That said, it's Apple. They could come out next week and unveil an all electric smart car that puts Tesla to shame, or they could come out with a new Version of Siri that makes this Rabbit OS stuff look like an indie project. However, I grow more and more skeptical that Apple can keep up on innovation as it seems like they have gotten way too complacent to simply keep making faster and faster iPhones while using their deep pockets to get access to the best nodes before anyone else does. It seems like a bad long-term strategy to burn cash just to be first in line all the time. Eventually, just being first in line with little else to show won't be enough. 

 

 

Microsoft is looking 10-20 years into the future and putting themselves in a great position to be steering the ship when it comes to AI innovation. Apple is trying to recapture the lighting in a bottle they once had while using brute force to stay relevant. 

 

 

Side note: in your other post comparing Macs to Windows laptops at your work; I'd wonder what the cost comparison is. If you compare like for like specs Apple vs Windows, the Apple PC is probably going to cost double. If you compare similar prices, things will trend much differently. There are also sooo many windows laptops, surely some designs are worse than others. I wonder how people at your company would feel if they were comparing something like a Surface Book to their Macs. 

 

 

 

Another side note: Microsoft moving into the position of most valuable company while they're making a big push into AI isn't a coincidence. I think 2024 will be a year of shocking innovation in AI. As Sam Altman put it, this next tech revolution will happen faster than any other in history. Since as AI improves, it can get better at improving itself, it's growth will be exponential rather than linear assuming things develop as expected. in 5 years, I think we will start to see major impacts to society stating to kick in. All it will take is an AI smart enough to move around in a robot good enough to start doing a lot of physical tasks in the real world and we could start seeing humans transition into a new era of society. If you look at the robots Boston Dynamic already makes, it looks like most of the ingredients are already there and now they just need to learn how to work with each other. This is not just a guess as to where things are headed, OpenAI is working on this very concept. 

 

Edited January 12 by UltraMega

[Sir Beregond]

5 minutes ago, UltraMega said:

 

Certainly true that as smartphones get more powerful, the need to spend a lot on one just to get a decent experience becomes less and less. I don't see myself upgrading my ~$200 LG Velvet 5G until it breaks. 

 

 

Kinda replying to your other post in the necro thread about Apple M1 here; Apple has made a lot of meaningful advancements with their chips, and they are even running a few real games now with Resident Evil games coming out on Macs and iPhones. But as I understand it, and I could be wrong here, most of Apple's advantages with their chips come from being first in line for the best nodes TSMC can make and not necessarily from them purely being more innovative. Their deep pockets have definitely had some advantages. But it does seem like they've lacked focus in the last few years. Their VR headset is unlikely to have meaningful sales given that it will be over 3 grand and require an eye appointment. At that price, it seems like it competes with something like HoloLens which also seems to be a pretty niche device. 

 

I just posted some news about this new Rabbit OS thing that is aiming to be an AI driven digital assistant to outperform something like Siri, and I can't help but think that turning Siri into a much better AI driven assistant should have been something Apple was highly focused on. It would have felt like a good natural progression of their tech. The VR headset, as impressive as it is, feels like a desperate attempt to make something innovative again. I think Steve Jobs understood that Apple innovates best when it innovates on products that can have mass appeal at an (arguably) reasonable price. Apple no longer makes much headway in that space and just continues to make more and more powerful versions of the same things. 

 

That said, it's Apple. They could come out next week and unveil an all electric smart car that puts Tesla to shame, or they could come out with a new Version of Siri that makes this Rabbit OS stuff look like an indie project. However, I grow more and more skeptical that Apple can keep up on innovation as it seems like they have gotten way too complacent to simply keep making faster and faster iPhones while using their deep pockets to get access to the best nodes before anyone else does. It seems like a bad long-term strategy to burn cash just to be first in line all the time. Eventually, just being first in line with little else to show won't be enough. 

 

 

Microsoft is looking 10-20 years into the future and putting themselves in a great position to be steering the ship when it comes to AI innovation. Apple is trying to recapture the lighting in a bottle they once had while using brute force to stay relevant. 

 

 

Side note: in your other post comparing Macs to Windows laptops at your work; I'd wonder what the cost comparison is. If you compare like for like specs Apple vs Windows, the Apple PC is probably going to cost double. If you compare similar prices, things will trend much differently. There are also sooo many windows laptops, surely some designs are worse than others. I wonder how people at your company would feel if they were comparing something like a Surface Book to their Macs. 

 

 

 

Most of the rest of the company is on Windows machines. Our department was a couple of startups that got bought like 6+ years ago and we still use Macbooks which I'd guess came from the startup days. I honestly don't know cost difference though as my understanding is that the enterprise leases machines vs buying them. This is like my 3rd refresh since I started 4 years ago.

 

Yes I agree now that we've seen 3 gens of Apple silicon that it seems most improvements are coming from TSMC process node improvements. I think Apple silicon is certainly good for their MacBook products, but otherwise don't seem to be improving much on their own since initial release.

 

As for the rest of your points, I agree wholeheartedly. Microsoft has really done a good job of branching their business in to long-term strategic revenue streams.

[Alex]

Ew.

 

Microsoft's entire product lineup has been getting considerably worse since around 3-4 years ago.

[UltraMega]

On 12/01/2024 at 11:49, Alex said:

Ew.

 

Microsoft's entire product lineup has been getting considerably worse since around 3-4 years ago.

 

 

VS what?

 

Microsoft Overtakes Apple: The New King of Tech Valuation! (msn.com)

 

Microsoft’s revenue in 2022 was $198 billion ¹. The largest source of Microsoft’s revenue was Office, with $44.9 billion (23% of the total), followed by Azure with $44 billion of revenue (22% of total) ¹. The other significant contributors to Microsoft’s revenue were Windows and Server Products, which accounted for 12% of the total revenue each ¹.

 

 

Explore

 

According to Microsoft’s 2023 annual report, the company generated a total revenue of $211 billion in fiscal year 2023 ¹. The report also states that the largest contributors to Microsoft’s revenue were Server Products and Cloud Services with $78 billion (37% of total), followed by Productivity and Business Processes with $69 billion (33% of total) ². The other significant contributors to Microsoft’s revenue were Windows and Office, which accounted for 12% of the total revenue each ³

 

 

 

[Alex]

I'd be up for a proper competition from google for a business ecosphere, MS frankly sucks at it and we all know it.

[UltraMega]

13 hours ago, Alex said:

I'd be up for a proper competition from google for a business ecosphere, MS frankly sucks at it and we all know it.

 

I don't know it. 

 

No company as big as Microsoft is perfect, but overall I think they're doing pretty well. Seems like the market thinks so too. 

 

Google likes to monopolize things so they can charge whatever they want, like with search and ads. If Google were bigger in the business ecosystem, I'm sure it would be a bad thing. 

Edited January 15 by UltraMega

[Sir Beregond]

13 hours ago, Alex said:

I'd be up for a proper competition from google for a business ecosphere, MS frankly sucks at it and we all know it.

No business in their right mind would ever start moving to Google Cloud in this day and age when AWS and Azure are established and Google throws around "if we don't get the same number of customers, we are just going to shut down cloud services". Yeah I'm sure that's inspire a lot of confidence and bring in tons of business customers. Now I'd say the likelihood of that happening is clearly very low, but it doesn't matter. In my opinion, Google can't be taken seriously while they are throwing around that kind of talk.

 

Plus Google has an established history at this point of not a lot of "stick with it-ness" to a lot of their product offerings. That's not good for business.

 

As for other business apps, I gotta say if there was a time where Slack was vastly better than Teams, at this stage that's not even close to true anymore and since our enterprise uses both I can say Slack is almost ripping off design cues from Teams these days.

 

What else...office software?

 

Office365? We've been using the hell out of Power Automate this year, it's been fantastic for us automating (albeit, can be a bit janky to setup), but integrates extremely well with Teams, Outlook, SharePoint, etc. 

 

Honestly I don't have any complaints aside from the time services go down.

Edited January 15 by Sir Beregond

[GanjaSMK]

In my very humble opinion, the writing has been on the wall for several years now in regards to MS becoming an incredible giant in global industry. 

 

My take;

 

* Azure : federal, state, consumer, prosumer, industry

* Office & subsequent interconnection : teams, office 365, azure (again), copilot, OS 

* OS : federal, state, consumer, prosumer, industry

* Gaming : PC, PS (likely coming), Xbox, cloud, streaming, hosting

* Product : surface line & more

* Cloud : Azure (again), onedrive, office (again), federal, state, consumer, prosumer

 

And more and more and more... the list could keep going and all interconnected and reliant upon each other in some way, shape or form. 

 

Next lets consider this;

 

* AI : openAI plus all of the others

* Sciences, pharmaceutical, applied : foundations, links, support & Azure (again), private & government supplemented/marketed

*  Nuclear : literally obtaining permits to build reactors for self-hosted/contained/maintained power 

 

And more continues if you care to dive deeper with company concepts, trajectories and expansion. 

 

Seems to me like MS will once again be the absolute "King" of tech companies in a very, very short period of time. 

 

Especially when you couple the incoming advancements we'll get between now and 2026... 

 

In my opinion; at least. 

 

EDIT: 

 

Wanted to add - from my own perspective on MS, it's clear AMD fairs the same. Big growth IMHO from both companies very shortly, very soon. 

Edited January 15 by GanjaSMK

[Alex]

I feel like you might've not dealt with the 'enterprise-grade' support MS provides. It's... great lol.

AWS/GCP provides a million times better support, but AWS costs an arm and a leg and doesnt have an M365 competitor.

 

M365 licensing is awful for pretty much everyone in the chain, and the CSP program sucks to support and their ever-changing Ts&Cs make life needlessly complex. I just want a competitor so that it isnt like 99.9% of people using MS's product stack so that they'd be forced to not take as many horrible risks with their software releases and support models because they know that people can't really go anywhere else.

[UltraMega]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

I feel like you might've not dealt with the 'enterprise-grade' support MS provides. It's... great lol.

AWS/GCP provides a million times better support, but AWS costs an arm and a leg and doesnt have an M365 competitor.

 

M365 licensing is awful for pretty much everyone in the chain, and the CSP program sucks to support and their ever-changing Ts&Cs make life needlessly complex. I just want a competitor so that it isnt like 99.9% of people using MS's product stack so that they'd be forced to not take as many horrible risks with their software releases and support models because they know that people can't really go anywhere else.

 

I'm all for competition, but I wouldn't trust Google or Amazon to reliably be able to do what Microsoft does in these spaces. Given how anti-competitive both of those companies tend to be, especially google, it seems like it would go poorly. 

[Sir Beregond]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

I feel like you might've not dealt with the 'enterprise-grade' support MS provides. It's... great lol.

AWS/GCP provides a million times better support, but AWS costs an arm and a leg and doesnt have an M365 competitor.

 

M365 licensing is awful for pretty much everyone in the chain, and the CSP program sucks to support and their ever-changing Ts&Cs make life needlessly complex. I just want a competitor so that it isnt like 99.9% of people using MS's product stack so that they'd be forced to not take as many horrible risks with their software releases and support models because they know that people can't really go anywhere else.

Fair, that's not my area of work so I have no insight into that.

 

We use AWS in my department. Other departments in our org are Azure or GCP, but we are probably at the bleeding edge compared to where those orgs are at and AWS has worked great for us. You are right in it costing an arm and a leg though.

 

See that's another part I don't really see is licensing. When I wanted a premium Power Automate license so I could use the ServiceNow integration, we just pinged a group to handle that. 

 

Anyway, I don't at all disagree with the notion we should have comparable competitors. We just umm...don't. When we do, I'm all for checking that out.