Help with Vega 64 Soft Power Play Tables Editing

[Alastair]

Hey guys, So I want to mess around a bit with the SPP tables on my Vega 64. However I am at a bit of a loss where to start. 

 

I want to edit the tables easily. I do know there is the Soft Power Play tables editor by halsafar but I have no idea how to even get it to work. Does anyone have a guide on how to install it and the prerequisites like the GTK it requires to run? Any help would be appreciated. 

 

Or alternatively I found a YouTube video where the guy was using an excel file that could modify and then generate the changes to the SPP tables in such a way that you could just copy paste them straight into a txt document and run it. However I can't seem to find out where to download such a file. And the only excel based spp editors I can find are on mac forums and they require clover or something to export the tables. 

 

I have posted a screenshot of the excel doc that was being used in the YT video. 

 

[damric]

I'll try and find my old tables where I basically unlimited the power and current. They are probably on a flash drive or disk in the office so might take some digging. If I can't find them, I'll link you the method I used to change the hex values. The trick is finding the right ones to change. When my water was very cold I could sustain 1800MHz for a lot of benches, but power draw was north of 450W.

[Alastair]

2 hours ago, damric said:

I'll try and find my old tables where I basically unlimited the power and current. They are probably on a flash drive or disk in the office so might take some digging. If I can't find them, I'll link you the method I used to change the hex values. The trick is finding the right ones to change. When my water was very cold I could sustain 1800MHz for a lot of benches, but power draw was north of 450W.

I am currently around 1750 set for about 1720-1750 get. and 1150 hbm. and I am doing about 350w core power. SO probably 450w total board power. But I have loads of thermal headroom. 45c core and 60c hotspot. So I want to crank the voltages and I know that the SPP tables tent to take priority over the BIOS with Vega.  So I want to eek as much out of the old girl as I can as I don't WANT to upgrade right now. I'm voting with my wallet. I won't support nvidia's scumbaggery with the 40 series, I don't like that AMD has blocked enthusiast overclocking on RDNA 3 by blocking the RBT and MPT tools. So I am sitting on my Vega HOPING that Battlemage brings something fun to play with. Because Alchemist is pretty overclockable from what I can tell. And I am hoping a second or third gen GPU from Intel by the time it comes out will have most of the kinks ironed out. 

 

 

[damric]

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

I am currently around 1750 set for about 1720-1750 get. and 1150 hbm. and I am doing about 350w core power. SO probably 450w total board power. But I have loads of thermal headroom. 45c core and 60c hotspot. So I want to crank the voltages and I know that the SPP tables tent to take priority over the BIOS with Vega.  So I want to eek as much out of the old girl as I can as I don't WANT to upgrade right now. I'm voting with my wallet. I won't support nvidia's scumbaggery with the 40 series, I don't like that AMD has blocked enthusiast overclocking on RDNA 3 by blocking the RBT and MPT tools. So I am sitting on my Vega HOPING that Battlemage brings something fun to play with. Because Alchemist is pretty overclockable from what I can tell. And I am hoping a second or third gen GPU from Intel by the time it comes out will have most of the kinks ironed out. 

 

 

Yeah man I hate that the newer cards don't OC really. The RDNA 2 cards do with MPT though. You will probably enjoy those.

 

But yeah my Vega 64 couldn't do much for the HBM, and it was limited to 1.2v on core.

[Alastair]

58 minutes ago, damric said:

Yeah man I hate that the newer cards don't OC really. The RDNA 2 cards do with MPT though. You will probably enjoy those.

 

But yeah my Vega 64 couldn't do much for the HBM, and it was limited to 1.2v on core.

Yes but even some air vegas are quite good. I argue my air vega was better than my LC. I could get to 1730 with the standard 1.2v on my air vega. My LC edition needs the full 1250mv to just keep 1750 stable with the power targets unlocked. Vega was actually one of the cards that annoyed me because we still to this day can't do BIOS mods for Vega. 

[LabRat]

I've just used OverDriveNtool (like MorePowerTool),

load-in a higher(or lower) power Vega's vBIOS' PPTs, then modify them.
IIRC, I've been able to get 330W+ out of an MI25 w/ merely increasing the Power Limit in the PPT before applying.

I've noticed if you don't use the right driver, you lose any/all finite voltage control, regardless of what's set in PPTs.

 

R.ID (Formerly amernimezone) drivers work best in my experience for tweaking Vega.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/radeon-id-distribution/files/Release Polaris-Vega-Navi/Release Specific HotFixes/WHQL-R-ID-Software-Hybrid-23.9.1SE-Win10-Win11-PolarisVegaNavi-Omega.exe/download

https://sourceforge.net/projects/radeon-id-distribution/files/Release Polaris-Vega-Navi/WHQL-R-ID-Software-Hybrid-23.12.1KB-AFMF-23.30.13.05-Dec8-Win10-Win11-PolarisVegaNavi-Nebula.exe/download

 

Old TPU thread of mine on the topic:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/wx9100-power-mods-help-w-powerplay-tables.306424/post-4984126
I've learned much since then, and presumptions I've made in that thread are not totally accurate but, it has pics of using OverDriveNtool and the R.ID drivers.

 

Edited February 29 by LabRat

[LabRat]

2 hours ago, damric said:

But yeah my Vega 64 couldn't do much for the HBM, and it was limited to 1.2v on core.

Every Vega 10 I have, will do 1028+ HBM easily, and most will do 1106-1107Mhz.
I've also noticed HBM likes to de-stabilize after ~75C (only when OC'd, 900-945Mhz, it can easily do 80c+)

Note: Enabling HBM ECC on the "WX 9100s" will drastically limit HBM clocking.

So, I can only assume I've seen "stability" (with giant air quotes).

 

I have a V64 that came with one of the vBIOS flashed to the Vega 10 XTX Liquid Cooled version.

It was causing problems on stock air, so I archived the VBIOS and re-flashed with a 200W Vega 64 XT 8GB VBIOS

 

(Edit: I have attached the Vega 10 XTX LC 1250mV VBIOS that I ripped from the card.

Please note, it was quite the PITA finding a correct DeviceID'd VBIOS to replace it; I kept 'bricking' the card .
Recovering from a bad flash is easier w/ a secondary card, but can be finagled w/ the 2-pos VBIOS switch and in-Windows ATIflash 2.93.)

Also, The (dual 8-pin) MI25 factory vBIOS and some of the Vega 10 XTX vBIOS will go to 1.250v.

Edit2: attached the MI25 300W (dual 8-pin) 1250mv VBIOS.

 

However, (for safety) no OCing tool will allow you to set this high of a voltage. 

Sadly*, I've not yet found a way to finagle a 1250mv's PPT/VBIOS into/onto my 16GB MI25s/WX9100s, but an 8GB Vega 64 under water could be cross-flashed to an XTX(LC) vBIOS.
 

*not really. Up until @pioneerisloud bullied me into zip tie'n an AIO onto one, there was 0 chance of me cooling more than 250W.

Edit: sorry for the double-post. I forgot eHW doesn't merge posts (if there's no reply between)

Unknown_LC-Vega 10-8GB-1250mv.zip

300W-MI25-1250mv.zip

Edited February 29 by LabRat

[Alastair]

1 hour ago, LabRat said:

I've just used OverDriveNtool (like MorePowerTool),

load-in a higher(or lower) power Vega's vBIOS' PPTs, then modify them.
IIRC, I've been able to get 330W+ out of an MI25 w/ merely increasing the Power Limit in the PPT before applying.

I've noticed if you don't use the right driver, you lose any/all finite voltage control, regardless of what's set in PPTs.

 

R.ID (Formerly amernimezone) drivers work best in my experience for tweaking Vega.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/radeon-id-distribution/files/Release Polaris-Vega-Navi/Release Specific HotFixes/WHQL-R-ID-Software-Hybrid-23.9.1SE-Win10-Win11-PolarisVegaNavi-Omega.exe/download

https://sourceforge.net/projects/radeon-id-distribution/files/Release Polaris-Vega-Navi/WHQL-R-ID-Software-Hybrid-23.12.1KB-AFMF-23.30.13.05-Dec8-Win10-Win11-PolarisVegaNavi-Nebula.exe/download

 

Old TPU thread of mine on the topic:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/wx9100-power-mods-help-w-powerplay-tables.306424/post-4984126
I've learned much since then, and presumptions I've made in that thread are not totally accurate but, it has pics of using OverDriveNtool and the R.ID drivers.

 

I am exceedingly embarrassed to say that I have had OverDriveN tool for ages and I NEVER knew it could do that. But now I have run into another issue. I assume things have been changed with newer drivers these days. But the registry entry is no longer called "PP_PhmSoftPowerPlayTable". It is now called "PP_PhmSoftWTTable". So the editor now won't open it as it says "invalid size". I have also noticed that there are far fewer entries in the new table vs the old. 

 

Here is an example. One of my old PP tables from probably a 2020 driver on the right vs new on the left

 

 

[LabRat]

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

I am exceedingly embarrassed to say that I have had OverDriveN tool for ages and I NEVER knew it could do that. But now I have run into another issue. I assume things have been changed with newer drivers these days. But the registry entry is no longer called "PP_PhmSoftPowerPlayTable". It is now called "PP_PhmSoftWTTable". So the editor now won't open it as it says "invalid size". I have also noticed that there are far fewer entries in the new table vs the old. 

 

Here is an example. One of my old PP tables from probably a 2020 driver on the right vs new on the left

 

 

Never messed with that, in that manner. 

OverDriveNtool is all I've used.

(Trixx, afterburner, and Wattmann, after loading new PowerPlayTables)

 

I believe the "MorePowerTool fix" is what resolves the issues you're looking at, however. Which, is wrapped into the 23.5.2SE R.ID Kernal drivers.

 

In my experience across 3+ MI25s(WX 9100s) and 1 Vega 64,

These are most-stable, and most-classically tweakable driver for single Vega 10.

 

Alternatively, the latest drivers from R.ID seem to work okay too.

But, with a Navi24 slotted in alongside the Vega 10, newest drivers are a PITA (R.ID and AMD, alike)

 

Edited February 29 by LabRat

[Alastair]

7 hours ago, LabRat said:

Never messed with that, in that manner. 

OverDriveNtool is all I've used.

(Trixx, afterburner, and Wattmann, after loading new PowerPlayTables)

 

I believe the "MorePowerTool fix" is what resolves the issues you're looking at, however. Which, is wrapped into the 23.5.2SE R.ID Kernal drivers.

 

In my experience across 3+ MI25s(WX 9100s) and 1 Vega 64,

These are most-stable, and most-classically tweakable driver for single Vega 10.

 

Alternatively, the latest drivers from R.ID seem to work okay too.

But, with a Navi24 slotted in alongside the Vega 10, newest drivers are a PITA (R.ID and AMD, alike)

 

I'm currently on R-ID drivers 24.1.1. 

What is morepowertool fix? I wonder if I can replace the PP_PhmSoftWTTable with the older PP_PhmSoftPowerPlayTable and if things will still work.

[LabRat]

22 hours ago, Alastair said:

I'm currently on R-ID drivers 24.1.1. 

What is morepowertool fix? I wonder if I can replace the PP_PhmSoftWTTable with the older PP_PhmSoftPowerPlayTable and if things will still work.

R.ID Community Driver: Hybrid - Release Nebula 23.11.1 WHQL | Page 436 | guru3D Forums

FORUMS.GURU3D.COM

---

I do not see the driver version he used in the video description, can you tell what's the driver used? It would've been the latest Valve APU driver,...

 

BTW, I've had problems w/ the 24.1.1 drivers (the last few days) on my Vega cards*. (primarily just the installer not installing the drivers correctly, and CCC not installing after)

*Sadly, it appears my Navi 24 RX 6500 XT has perished. So, I've got a Vega 64 and a "WX 9100" in the machine @TM. More than 1 card, seems to confuse the latest R.ID installer(s).
 

Edited March 2 by LabRat

[Alastair]

29 minutes ago, LabRat said:

R.ID Community Driver: Hybrid - Release Nebula 23.11.1 WHQL | Page 436 | guru3D Forums

FORUMS.GURU3D.COM

---

I do not see the driver version he used in the video description, can you tell what's the driver used? It would've been the latest Valve APU driver,...

 

BTW, I've had problems w/ the 24.1.1 drivers (the last few days) on my Vega cards*. (primarily just the installer not installing the drivers correctly, and CCC not installing after)

*Sadly, it appears my Navi 24 RX 6500 XT has perished. So, I've got a Vega 64 and a "WX 9100" in the machine @TM. More than 1 card, seems to confuse the latest R.ID installer(s).
 

I'll try the More Power Tool. It's hard to keep track all the fixes etc across all the different forums. 

 

We have been suffering a rather extreme heatwave these last few weeks here in Johannesburg. My indoor temps have creeped past 30c a few times. Playing hogwarts Legacy I've seen core temps climbing beyond 45c and my HBM over 50. It's amazing how the HBM stability falls off a cliff when you exceed 50c. It will quite happy run legacy with 1175HBM if under 50c but I have to back off the clocks a bit once the temps exceed 50C. I don't have a backplate on my Vega. Space is a wee bit tight behind the card with the riser and also the outlet of the block going behind the card. But I am wondering if a like an 80x10 fan on the back of the core might help bring things down a few Cs.

 

 

Also with your 6500XT dying. The Vegas would eat those anyway. So unless you need the modern features on the 6500xt you are sitting with basically an upgrade on the Vegas. Mine is nipping at the heels of 6600XT with the current OCs. I've managed to break 9K gfx in Timespy and I'm trying to edge the 9100 barrier. I have enough radiator and let's face it 5800X3D (need to update rig 3800X died) doesn't dump massive heat into the loop. So I've got almost 680mm of rad dedicated to the Vega. 

[LabRat]

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

I'll try the More Power Tool. It's hard to keep track all the fixes etc across all the different forums. 

 

We have been suffering a rather extreme heatwave these last few weeks here in Johannesburg. My indoor temps have creeped past 30c a few times. Playing hogwarts Legacy I've seen core temps climbing beyond 45c and my HBM over 50. It's amazing how the HBM stability falls off a cliff when you exceed 50c. It will quite happy run legacy with 1175HBM if under 50c but I have to back off the clocks a bit once the temps exceed 50C. I don't have a backplate on my Vega. Space is a wee bit tight behind the card with the riser and also the outlet of the block going behind the card. But I am wondering if a like an 80x10 fan on the back of the core might help bring things down a few Cs.

Ouch!
Yes, HBM is very thermal sensitive; the cooler you can keep it, the higher it clocks. 800-945mhz, it can 'eat the heat' but, 1050-1107+ ya gotta keep it under 75C.
As you've found out, you can go crazy-high, if under nice and cool water.

 

Personally, 1106Mhz (Actual) on the HBM is my 'ideal'. IDK if it's placebo, but I swear Vega runs smoother when the SoC and HBM clocks are 1:1.

 

If your ambients are that high, more air can only help so much: I'd be looking at an active water chiller, lol.

 

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

 

Also with your 6500XT dying. The Vegas would eat those anyway. So unless you need the modern features on the 6500xt you are sitting with basically an upgrade on the Vegas. Mine is nipping at the heels of 6600XT with the current OCs. I've managed to break 9K gfx in Timespy and I'm trying to edge the 9100 barrier. I have enough radiator and let's face it 5800X3D (need to update rig 3800X died) doesn't dump massive heat into the loop. So I've got almost 680mm of rad dedicated to the Vega. 

I'm not 100% sure yet. This'd be the 3rd time I thought I killed that card.

Both Vega and Navi 2x, seem to get testy with me when I crash them. Sometimes after sitting unpowered or power cycling, they come back. No clue why, other than like a non-UEFI compatible 'safe mode'.

 

Yes, I was using the Navi 24 6500 XT for AFMF'ing my other older cards. 
Somehow, even w/ an RX580X, Vega 64, and "WX 9100", and even w/ AFMF off, I was getting better benchmarked performance passing another card's rendering thru to the 6500. Tested that like 5x times w/ A:FoP and Killing Floor 2. Strangest part: Vega does NOT like to do the same. (passing frames from one Vega to another is not smooth).

 

Amusingly, I recently moved to the 5800X3D, also.
While my (FSP 250W TDP "Rated") air cooler isn't quite up to the task*, the X3D 'boosted' my Vegas' already good min framerate. 

As you've demonstrated (and I've played with) HBM GPUs aren't dead. OC'd they just keep gaining performance. 

A dream of mine, is to drop a riser-connected MI25/WX 9100 in a container of mineral oil, then drop in dry ice.  

 

*F@H easily thermally-maxes my 5800X3D w/ current cooling.

Edited March 1 by LabRat

[Alastair]

4 hours ago, LabRat said:

Ouch!
Yes, HBM is very thermal sensitive; the cooler you can keep it, the higher it clocks. 800-945mhz, it can 'eat the heat' but, 1050-1107+ ya gotta keep it under 75C.
As you've found out, you can go crazy-high, if under nice and cool water.

 

Personally, 1106Mhz (Actual) on the HBM is my 'ideal'. IDK if it's placebo, but I swear Vega runs smoother when the SoC and HBM clocks are 1:1.

 

If your ambients are that high, more air can only help so much: I'd be looking at an active water chiller, lol.

 

I'm not 100% sure yet. This'd be the 3rd time I thought I killed that card.

Both Vega and Navi 2x, seem to get testy with me when I crash them. Sometimes after sitting unpowered or power cycling, they come back. No clue why, other than like a non-UEFI compatible 'safe mode'.

 

Yes, I was using the Navi 24 6500 XT for AFMF'ing my other older cards. 
Somehow, even w/ an RX580X, Vega 64, and "WX 9100", and even w/ AFMF off, I was getting better benchmarked performance passing another card's rendering thru to the 6500. Tested that like 5x times w/ A:FoP and Killing Floor 2. Strangest part: Vega does NOT like to do the same. (passing frames from one Vega to another is not smooth).

 

Amusingly, I recently moved to the 5800X3D, also.
While my (FSP 250W TDP "Rated") air cooler isn't quite up to the task*, the X3D 'boosted' my Vegas' already good min framerate. 

As you've demonstrated (and I've played with) HBM GPUs aren't dead. OC'd they just keep gaining performance. 

A dream of mine, is to drop a riser-connected MI25/WX 9100 in a container of mineral oil, then drop in dry ice.  

 

*F@H easily thermally-maxes my 5800X3D w/ current cooling.

On later drivers (after 18.x I think it was) AMD pushed the SOC to match the HBM. So you could go all the way to 1200HBM and have the HBM and SOC 1:1. So going beyond 1107HBM should be a non issue. 

[LabRat]

This was mentioned somewhere else, and realized it might be helpful, here:

Update of the MoreClockTool (MCT) to version 1.1.0 - Download is online

WWW.IGORSLAB.DE

---

The latest version 1.01 of the MoreClockTool is online. With the use of the AMD Device Library eXtra Software Development Kit (ADLX SDK) RDNA3 is now also inclu

Also, did *not* realize that about Vega. (probably due to cooling limitations)
Now I have even more reason to OC 'em 

Edited March 2 by LabRat

[Alastair]

1 hour ago, LabRat said:

This was mentioned somewhere else, and realized it might be helpful, here:

Update of the MoreClockTool (MCT) to version 1.1.0 - Download is online

WWW.IGORSLAB.DE

---

The latest version 1.01 of the MoreClockTool is online. With the use of the AMD Device Library eXtra Software Development Kit (ADLX SDK) RDNA3 is now also inclu

Also, did *not* realize that about Vega. (probably due to cooling limitations)
Now I have even more reason to OC 'em 

I laugh at the face of cooling restrictions 

[Alastair]

2 hours ago, LabRat said:

This was mentioned somewhere else, and realized it might be helpful, here:

 

Update of the MoreClockTool (MCT) to version 1.1.0 - Download is online

WWW.IGORSLAB.DE

---

The latest version 1.01 of the MoreClockTool is online. With the use of the AMD Device Library eXtra Software Development Kit (ADLX SDK) RDNA3 is now also inclu

Also, did *not* realize that about Vega. (probably due to cooling limitations)
Now I have even more reason to OC 'em 

More clock tool and more power tool do not work with Vega. 

 

EDIT: Or I just can't figure out how to make it work with R-ID drivers

 

Edited March 2 by Alastair
Added more information

[Alastair]

I have figured it out I think. I need to install the R-ID drivers with the option for 23.5.2 kernals. Are there any sort of disadvantages when using older kernal with newer drivers? I am busy installing as I type will see if I can get it to work.

[Alastair]

OK so now MCT starts to work a bit. But options for clock changes etc are still greyed out. 

Edited March 2 by Alastair