Tips for complex water cooling loops

[Paradigm Gaming]

5 minutes ago, J7SC_Orion said:

  

...re. your question as to whether push+pull makes a difference, 'yes', but it depends to some extent on the rad setup (thickness, fin density) and of course the fans themselves. I build my first quad-SLI back in '13 and used a custom 1080x60 rad (equivalent to MoRa360) with 18x static pressure fans, 9 at the front and 9 at the rear...the difference on that particular setup was about minus 5 -6 C for the CPU under load  but more pronounced when loading the Quad-SLI with benches. 

 

...same with the 2080 Ti SLI-CFR setup, it uses 3x 360/60 in push+pull with GentleTyphoons (and one w/ ML 120s in push pull)...static pressure isn't a problem and the resulting 'noise' is largely mitigated by baffles I added (which also help airflow, btw) as those rads sit 'on their side'.

 

Key is to have 'matched fans' running on the same controller - you don't want the fans to hinder each other 

 

...with the Arctic P12 PST I'm just getting into, installing them on one side dropped temps by over 4 C compared to the ML 120s - and the P12s are amazingly quiet even at speed...adding push/pull to those tomorrow in the new build and will update here  ...in the meantime, check this out:

  

 

 

 

For sure, @J7SC_Orion brings up probably the most important facet of a push pull configuration ... that all fans are the same and that they are all run on the same controller.

 

Push/Pull isn't necessary, but it's one of those efficiency things for me.  And it happens to come along with a pretty nice aesthetic.  Thing is, that you have to have a case large enough to accommodate one or multiple configurations depending on what type of rig you are building.

 

PC radiators, by design, are obstructive and impede airflow.  If you use air flow fans (high CFM and RPM) you risk the air moving too fast and 'bouncing off of the rad fins and seeping through the open air seems instead of trapping the air and using static pressure to dissipate the heat and force the air through the fins.

 

Pushing air through the rads is the popular choice, and allows for a bit of design freedom when also wanting to mount reservoirs, distro plates or other design mechanics to the other side of the radiator.  But for pure cooling effects, have fans on the opposite side pulling through the air that the other fans are pushing allows for a much more efficient operation, allowing for more air to move both through the rad and into the case.

The thicker the radiator, the more push/pull becomes an attractive option.

 

I've always been a proponent of positive air pressure in a case, so I'd traditionally not pay much attention to the specs of the exhaust fans, but the theory crafting on positive vs. negative and equalized case pressure is still debatable.  Now that I build in open air chassis', I concentrate more on the efficiency of radiator cooling and less on the internal pressure of the case.

[BWG]

I've just now realized how far I've come from this first loop lmao!

 

 

[ENTERPRISE]

31 minutes ago, Paradigm Gaming said:

 

For sure, @J7SC_Orion brings up probably the most important facet of a push pull configuration ... that all fans are the same and that they are all run on the same controller.

 

Push/Pull isn't necessary, but it's one of those efficiency things for me.  And it happens to come along with a pretty nice aesthetic.  Thing is, that you have to have a case large enough to accommodate one or multiple configurations depending on what type of rig you are building.

 

PC radiators, by design, are obstructive and impede airflow.  If you use air flow fans (high CFM and RPM) you risk the air moving too fast and 'bouncing off of the rad fins and seeping through the open air seems instead of trapping the air and using static pressure to dissipate the heat and force the air through the fins.

 

Pushing air through the rads is the popular choice, and allows for a bit of design freedom when also wanting to mount reservoirs, distro plates or other design mechanics to the other side of the radiator.  But for pure cooling effects, have fans on the opposite side pulling through the air that the other fans are pushing allows for a much more efficient operation, allowing for more air to move both through the rad and into the case.

The thicker the radiator, the more push/pull becomes an attractive option.

 

I've always been a proponent of positive air pressure in a case, so I'd traditionally not pay much attention to the specs of the exhaust fans, but the theory crafting on positive vs. negative and equalized case pressure is still debatable.  Now that I build in open air chassis', I concentrate more on the efficiency of radiator cooling and less on the internal pressure of the case.

 

To be honest, I have yet to really pay an awful lot of attention to positive vs negative pressure in case airflow. I have been a traditional sucker for front as intake and top and rear as outtake. I did actually once try the top as intake as well which logically speaking does not make sense as heat rises, however had a nice cooling effect on the SLI setup I had at the time. Not sure if it was direct cooling or a little bit of direct cooling and heat displacement out of the rear fan instead. I never did any sort of experiment on it. 

 

As it happens I still have some of those Gentle Typhoons hanging around never used lol. Wish they were PWM but generally speaking a decent DC control is fine if through the motherboard or external controller. 

 

[J7SC_Orion]

2 minutes ago, ENTERPRISE said:

 

To be honest, I have yet to really pay an awful lot of attention to positive vs negative pressure in case airflow. I have been a traditional sucker for front as intake and top and rear as outtake. I did actually once try the top as intake as well which logically speaking does not make sense as heat rises, however had a nice cooling effect on the SLI setup I had at the time. Not sure if it was direct cooling or a little bit of direct cooling and heat displacement out of the rear fan instead. I never did any sort of experiment on it. 

 

As it happens I still have some of those Gentle Typhoons hanging around never used lol. Wish they were PWM but generally speaking a decent DC control is fine if through the motherboard or external controller. 

 

 

" As it happens I still have some of those Gentle Typhoons hanging around never used lol. Wish they were PWM but generally speaking a decent DC control is fine if through the motherboard or external controller."

 

...ohh, but there's a solution: https://www.overclockers.com/high-speed-gentle-typhoon-pwm-mod/ 

[ENTERPRISE]

8 minutes ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

" As it happens I still have some of those Gentle Typhoons hanging around never used lol. Wish they were PWM but generally speaking a decent DC control is fine if through the motherboard or external controller."

 

...ohh, but there's a solution: https://www.overclockers.com/high-speed-gentle-typhoon-pwm-mod/ 

 

Oh, that is fairly wicked ! I may have to take a look and do that when I next need a decent fan and see if I can mod some of these. Thanks for that.

[mouacyk]

Just an fyi to anyone installing water blocks -- check that standoffs are fully tightened.  Somehow, I got a Bykski block for my 3080 that had a delta of 36C on GPU temp, similar to everyone else on the internet clamoring about how great water blocks are at keeping GPUs in mid 50C's.  That didn't feel right, having seen a fully unlocked 1080 TI with XOC BIOS pull ~400W+ in low 40C's in my same loop.  Turns out, several standoffs around the die mount surface had loose standoffs and prevented optimal contact.  Afterwards, delta dropped to a typical 15-17C delta.

 

a = stock mount; b = thicker washer; c = tightened standoffs with thicker washer

Edited February 15, 2021 by mouacyk

[J7SC_Orion]

Just now, mouacyk said:

Just an fyi to anyone installing water blocks -- check that standoffs are fully tightened.  Somehow, I got a Bykski block for my 3080 that had a delta of 36C on GPU temp, similar to everyone else on the internet clamoring about how great water blocks are at keeping GPUs in mid 50C's.  That didn't feel right, having seen a fully unlocked 1080 TI with XOC BIOS pull ~400W+ in low 40C's in my same loop.  Turns out, several standoffs around the die mount surface had loose standoffs and prevented optimal contact.  Afterwards, delta dropped to a typical 15-17C delta.

 

Thanks  ...good to know. I'm considering the Bykski for my Strix

[Sir Beregond]

37 minutes ago, ENTERPRISE said:

 

To be honest, I have yet to really pay an awful lot of attention to positive vs negative pressure in case airflow. I have been a traditional sucker for front as intake and top and rear as outtake. I did actually once try the top as intake as well which logically speaking does not make sense as heat rises, however had a nice cooling effect on the SLI setup I had at the time. Not sure if it was direct cooling or a little bit of direct cooling and heat displacement out of the rear fan instead. I never did any sort of experiment on it. 

 

As it happens I still have some of those Gentle Typhoons hanging around never used lol. Wish they were PWM but generally speaking a decent DC control is fine if through the motherboard or external controller. 

 

 

Oh man I got like 20 of these things in my parts closet. They might actually go with my upcoming build theme again haha.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Sir Beregond

[ENTERPRISE]

2 hours ago, mouacyk said:

Just an fyi to anyone installing water blocks -- check that standoffs are fully tightened.  Somehow, I got a Bykski block for my 3080 that had a delta of 36C on GPU temp, similar to everyone else on the internet clamoring about how great water blocks are at keeping GPUs in mid 50C's.  That didn't feel right, having seen a fully unlocked 1080 TI with XOC BIOS pull ~400W+ in low 40C's in my same loop.  Turns out, several standoffs around the die mount surface had loose standoffs and prevented optimal contact.  Afterwards, delta dropped to a typical 15-17C delta.

 

a = stock mount; b = thicker washer; c = tightened standoffs with thicker washer

Great shout out ! It is always these small things that can get missed in the excitement lol. I myself have an EK block and Alphacool block on order for my 3090. Will double check it all before install. Thanks !

 

Fingers crossed the Alphacool fits my GPU. It states it fits all the other EVGA FTW3 Ultra Gaming PCB's but does not mention the Ultra Gaming Hybrid specifically but so far as logic dictates, the PCB should be the same, only difference is the Hybrid has an AIO. 

 

Only ordered the Alphacool as available so much sooner than EK's block in like April lol.

2 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

 

Oh man I got like 20 of these things in my parts closet. They might actually go with my upcoming build theme again haha.

 

Ha, if only they fetched an inflated price like everything else right now.

 

You could make some money lol.