Intel Overclocking Help

[ENTERPRISE]

Hey all, 

 

So I have been with AMD for a good while now, to the point when I look at the Intel Overclocking, I am almost a little lost. Intel have always had what I deem lots of tuneable aspects vs AMD, it can lead you wondering where to start. 

 

OK so the long show of it is I am looking to OC the CPU and RAM in the below RIG. Yes that is right, it is the CFP 2.0 rig. I have spent sometime re-working it recently so that I can use it for work and have it fold for the team. Granted the CPU & RAM OC will do little for F@H, however I want to get the best out of it for the more "Work" reasons.  

 

The rig components are as below: 

 

 

I ran Thaiphoon Burner and got the below results on the RAM. 

 

 

Not sure how far I can take the RAM, with having 8x modules, the headroom will be limited by that, but I would imagine I can get more than the XMP rated speeds out of it. 

 

I am going to start having a play around. However if anyone has some good advice as a starting point for some decent settings to "Plug in" regarding the CPU and RAM, that would also be really helpful.  It is worth noting the CPU is cooled by an EK BASIC 360mm AIO on a push/pull configuration, I am not sure how far I can take the 10900X. 

 

All comments and wisdom welcome

 

Thanks,

E

 

 

[ENTERPRISE]

Release bump.

[Avacado]

  On 14/09/2022 at 11:58, ENTERPRISE said:

Hey all, 

 

So I have been with AMD for a good while now, to the point when I look at the Intel Overclocking, I am almost a little lost. Intel have always had what I deem lots of tuneable aspects vs AMD, it can lead you wondering where to start. 

 

OK so the long show of it is I am looking to OC the CPU and RAM in the below RIG. Yes that is right, it is the CFP 2.0 rig. I have spent sometime re-working it recently so that I can use it for work and have it fold for the team. Granted the CPU & RAM OC will do little for F@H, however I want to get the best out of it for the more "Work" reasons.  

 

The rig components are as below: 

 

 

I ran Thaiphoon Burner and got the below results on the RAM. 

 

 

Not sure how far I can take the RAM, with having 8x modules, the headroom will be limited by that, but I would imagine I can get more than the XMP rated speeds out of it. 

 

I am going to start having a play around. However if anyone has some good advice as a starting point for some decent settings to "Plug in" regarding the CPU and RAM, that would also be really helpful.  It is worth noting the CPU is cooled by an EK BASIC 360mm AIO on a push/pull configuration, I am not sure how far I can take the 10900X. 

 

All comments and wisdom welcome

 

Thanks,

E

 

 

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I wish I could help you on this one, but I have never owned any of the -X series chips and I don't know how closely they mirror their K counterparts. I know @Bastiaan_NL has an X299 Sage and has done some overclocking with it. I think he would be able to help. I am pretty sure @The Pook has 10th gen too. Elmor had a thread on OCN stating that the 10th gen was very similar to the previous 9th gen. It might be worth a read HERE. I really hate trying to give advice on things I haven't actually played with before, so I'll let the experts step in. GL! 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Avacado

[ENTERPRISE]

  On 16/09/2022 at 17:09, Avacado said:

I wish I could help you on this one, but I have never owned any of the -X series chips and I don't know how closely they mirror their K counterparts. I know @Bastiaan_NL has an X299 Sage and has done some overclocking with it. I think he would be able to help. I am pretty sure @The Pook has 10th gen too. Elmor had a thread on OCN stating that the 10th gen was very similar to the previous 9th gen. It might be worth a read HERE. I really hate trying to give advice on things I haven't actually played with before, so I'll let the experts step in. GL! 

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Thanks man, I get that you cannot really comment on something you haven't played with. I will see who else is able to chime in

[The Pook]

  On 16/09/2022 at 17:09, Avacado said:

I wish I could help you on this one, but I have never owned any of the -X series chips and I don't know how closely they mirror their K counterparts. I know @Bastiaan_NL has an X299 Sage and has done some overclocking with it. I think he would be able to help. I am pretty sure @The Pook has 10th gen too. Elmor had a thread on OCN stating that the 10th gen was very similar to the previous 9th gen. It might be worth a read HERE. I really hate trying to give advice on things I haven't actually played with before, so I'll let the experts step in. GL! 

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I've got zero X299 or 8 DIMM OC experience either 

 

are you looking for RAM OCing 101 or just a cheat sheet for that specific die/DIMM config? 

 

if the former: 

 

1. take all your RAM timings except RTL and IO-L off auto. enter the same values in manually (so the motherboard won't change them when you increase frequency)
2. set voltages to whatever you want for 24/7 
3. bump up RAM speed until you find max stable 
4. see if you can drop primary timings and if 1T is stable (probably not if ^ was successful) 
5. then either:
   a) tedious mode: work down sub timings bit by bit and test in between 
   b) easy mode: go into OCN's Intel DDR4 thread and steal someone's subs. most people are running B-Die but if you're several 100mhz below them it should still work

 

When I moved my server from B-Die (16GB 3466 @ 4000) to Hynix C-Die (64GB 3200 @ 3400) I was too lazy do dial things in properly and just carried over my B-Die subs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited September 17, 2022 by The Pook

[Bastiaan_NL]

I agree with the approach of @The Pook as far as RAM OC goes. I'd start with overclocking the CPU before messing with the memory though, try to get that hot head stable with decent temps before spending hours of trouble shooting.

So as far as the 10900X goes, it's not as easy as the other 10th gen chips as far as I know. I've only tried messing with it for a few hours before I had more important (team cup stuff) benchmarking too do so I had to put it aside. 
Once the competition is over (or the 470 SLI stuff needs a board that for sure works) I can give it another try and I could let you know how it goes on my end. I know one thing though, that chip runs hot and draws a lot of power. 
The only benchmark I did was: 

/img/logo.png

Bastiaan_NL`s Geekbench3 - Multi Core score: 49511 points with a Core i9 10900X

HWBOT.ORG

---

The Core i9 10900X @ 5000MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Geekbench3 - Multi Core benchmark. Bastiaan_NLranks #140 worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.

Don't look at the memory, it's a Vengeance LPX kit and I didn't even bother to work on it.
The CPU clock is stable enough for this benchmark but that's about it, it would need more voltage or less clock speed to run stable for a 24/7 OC but I don't really know the actual settings and I'd have to get the hardware installed again to check it for you.

[ENTERPRISE]

Hey guys, 

 

So I tried my luck today with some Overclocking. I did not spend a huge amount of time on it and everything is fairly preliminary. I was trying to shoot for the 5Ghz range straight away (Trying my luck!), which may not be possible due to the silicon lottery. I was unable to keep 5Ghz Stable at 1.3 Vcore  when testing via OCCT and it may be a case I have to back off. I also dropped the AVX and AV-512 to their stock ratios as I wanted to make sure they were not getting in my way. I have no idea what is even a sensible ratio for these but I will get there later.

 

However before I start my next attempt. These are the settings I currently have plugged into the BIOS. Does anything stand out ? I also noted that while I could locate the VCCIO voltage, I could not locate the VCCSA voltages ? Anyone have any idea where that is hiding ? Motherboard is an Asus X299 Sage. On my next attempt I will back it off to 4.8Ghz and see if I can get that stable and go up from there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir Beregond]

Wish I could help E, but my last experience with Intel overclocking was a 4790k. I will say I found it far easier to work with than the 5900X. While all core OC on AMD did great with some multi-thread benchmarks, I found it hampered my single thread performance where PBO/CO could achieve higher single core clocks. I guess some newer BIOS versions let you get the best of both worlds now, but I haven't updated to try it out.

 

Contrast that to my 4790k system and it was as easy as setting a number while syncing all cores and bumping the voltage up if necessary and testing. Manually tuning Curve Optimizer on AMD on the other hand was extremely tedious.

 

I am not sure if Intel is as simple as it used to be given we have moved past the quad core era. But I guess I can just say good luck with your OCing endeavors. 

[Bastiaan_NL]

Here you have your VCCSA, AKA Voltage Common Collector System Agent 
I just love how every manufacturer decides to give something their own name, so you have to search for hours in a bios just to find out it was right under your nose..

 

All of the other settings seem to be correct, or at least how I would do it. 

 

  On 19/09/2022 at 16:27, Sir Beregond said:

Wish I could help E, but my last experience with Intel overclocking was a 4790k. I will say I found it far easier to work with than the 5900X. While all core OC on AMD did great with some multi-thread benchmarks, I found it hampered my single thread performance where PBO/CO could achieve higher single core clocks. I guess some newer BIOS versions let you get the best of both worlds now, but I haven't updated to try it out.

 

Contrast that to my 4790k system and it was as easy as setting a number while syncing all cores and bumping the voltage up if necessary and testing. Manually tuning Curve Optimizer on AMD on the other hand was extremely tedious.

 

I am not sure if Intel is as simple as it used to be given we have moved past the quad core era. But I guess I can just say good luck with your OCing endeavors. 

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I agree with this as far as AMD vs older stuff goes, I don't have the same trouble with Intel though besides some funny things which are different between boards. In the end it's still boosting the BCLK or multiplier and upping a few voltages.

[Avacado]

RAM frequency scales with CPU frequency. You should be able to achieve 3600 RAM clock at XMP with increased voltage. I would not be afraid to use 1.5v daily for DDR4 (With good airflow over the IC's). Agree with @Bastiaan_NL that you'll need a higher SA, anything less than 1.2v should be ok, but you should try to find what's stable less than 1.2v. Your AVX offset of 9 is a bit extreme (I get it for testing) and you should not have to do much more than 2-3 even at 5GHZ CPU frequency should you manage to achieve it. You could set min/max cache that would help your OC, but increased cache can lead to RAM instability at higher frequencies. -3 is usually a safe default I.E 4.9GHz all core CPU with 44/46 Cache min/max. The big question is "Safe" voltage for your chip. I have read through the 10900x datasheet, but couldn't find an exact voltage operating range for the CPU so  If it were a 9900k, I wouldn't be afraid to run up to 1.36v daily under a good cooling solution. But as with anything, take it with a grain of salt and what you think your tech can handle. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Avacado

[Bastiaan_NL]

@ENTERPRISE increased the AVX offset to see if that was causing the instability. I think I ran no offset at all, cause yolo, but my voltage was higher (yolo again ).
As far as memory goes I think it should be able to clock a decent bit higher. I don't know what chips they are, but there is always something to gain. For now I would focus on the CPU though, 3200mem is fine for testing around 4.9ghz.
I've been reading about voltages some time ago when I was playing with mine and I found a lot of 'opinions' on the matter. The biggest issue is heat, 1.35 on this 10c20t will be pretty hot so finding a stable overclock at 1.3v is a nice goal and so is 1.2v VCCSA.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Bastiaan_NL

[The Pook]

CPU VRM Switching Frequency -> max

DRAM Switching Frequency -> max

 

don't you need a golden chip for 5.0 with a 10900X? 4.9 with 1.3v is good for a 10900X. how are you testing for stability? you needing such a significant AVX offset makes me wonder 

Edited September 19, 2022 by The Pook

[ENTERPRISE]

  On 19/09/2022 at 16:39, Bastiaan_NL said:

Here you have your VCCSA, AKA Voltage Common Collector System Agent 
I just love how every manufacturer decides to give something their own name, so you have to search for hours in a bios just to find out it was right under your nose..

 

All of the other settings seem to be correct, or at least how I would do it. 

 

I agree with this as far as AMD vs older stuff goes, I don't have the same trouble with Intel though besides some funny things which are different between boards. In the end it's still boosting the BCLK or multiplier and upping a few voltages.

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I knew it ! I Thought that System Agent might be it but I questioned it as they used the standard naming convention elsewhere, so dangerously assumed they would stick to one convention lol. 

  On 19/09/2022 at 16:53, Avacado said:

RAM frequency scales with CPU frequency. You should should be able to achieve 3600 RAM clock at XMP with increased voltage. I would not be afraid to use 1.5v daily for DDR4 (With good airflow over the IC's). Agree with @Bastiaan_NL that you'll need a higher SA, anything less than 1.2v should be ok, but you should try to find what's stable less than 1.2v. Your AVX offset of 9 is a bit extreme (I get it for testing) and you should not have to do much more than 2-3 even at 5GHZ CPU frequency should you manage to achieve it. You could set min/max cache that would help your OC, but increased cache can lead to RAM instability at higher frequencies. -3 is usually a safe default I.E 4.9GHz all core CPU with 44/46 Cache min/max. The big question is "Safe" voltage for your chip. I have read through the 10900x datasheet, but couldn't find an exact voltage operating range for the CPU so  If it were a 9900k, I wouldn't be afraid to run up to 1.36v daily under a good cooling solution. But as with anything, take it with a grain of salt and what you think your tech can handle. 

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Thanks for the insight, as it happens im leaving the RAM frequency alone for now until I get the CPU in a good place. Then I will start working on the RAM speeds and timings.

 

I will adjust my SA and change my AVX offset to something less extreme. As you say, I put it back to stock speeds as I wondered if it was the AVX OC causing me issues, however it looks as if it is a lack of Voltage on the System Agent.

  On 19/09/2022 at 17:01, Bastiaan_NL said:

@ENTERPRISE increased the AVX offset to see if that was causing the instability. I think I ran no offset at all, cause yolo, but my voltage was higher (yolo again ).
As far as memory goes I think it should be able to clock a decent bit higher. I don't know what chips they are, but there is always something to gain. For now I would focus on the CPU though, 3200mem is fine for testing around 4.9ghz.
I've been reading about voltages some time ago when I was playing with mine and I found a lot of 'opinions' on the matter. The biggest issue is heat, 1.35 on 10c20t will be pretty hot so finding a stable overclock at 1.3v is a nice goal and so is 1.2v VCCSA.

 

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Yeah. I figure at 1.3v things will start to heat up. Easily will hit mid 90's especially as im just using an AIO rather than WC. 

[ENTERPRISE]

  On 19/09/2022 at 17:21, The Pook said:

CPU VRM Switching Frequency -> max

DRAM Switching Frequency -> max

 

also don't you need a golden chip for 5.0 with a 10900X? even 4.9 with 1.3v is really good for a 10900X. how are you testing for stability? you needing such a significant AVX offset makes me wonder 

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Good shout on the CPU VRM and DRAM switching frequency. 

 

Yeah, I think 5Ghz all core is for the cream of the crop chips. As I say, I was trying my luck with a dirty OC lol. Im thinking 4.8Ghz is more realistic.

[Bastiaan_NL]

  On 19/09/2022 at 17:24, ENTERPRISE said:

Good shout on the CPU VRM and DRAM switching frequency. 

 

Yeah, I think 5Ghz all core is for the cream of the crop chips. As I say, I was trying my luck with a dirty OC lol. Im thinking 4.8Ghz is more realistic.

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  On 19/09/2022 at 17:21, The Pook said:

CPU VRM Switching Frequency -> max

DRAM Switching Frequency -> max

 

also don't you need a golden chip for 5.0 with a 10900X? even 4.9 with 1.3v is really good for a 10900X. how are you testing for stability? you needing such a significant AVX offset makes me wonder 

Expand  

I'm pretty sure this board warns you about heat with the higher switching frequencies, the max frequency is way higher than on the ASUS Z690 board for example. I don't know how hot stuff gets around the CPU but some airflow over the board is not a bad idea if you go for that max.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Bastiaan_NL

[The Pook]

  On 19/09/2022 at 17:28, Bastiaan_NL said:

I'm pretty sure this board warns you with the higher switching frequencies, the max frequency is way higher than on the ASUS Z690 board for example. I don't know how hot stuff gets around the CPU but some airflow over the board is not a bad idea if you go for that max.

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 how much is way higher? 

 

1Khz has been the max on VRM switching frequency my last few Asus boards, assumed that was the norm. going from stock (300hz?) to max on my 10900K didn't really have much of an effect on temperatures for me though. 

[Bastiaan_NL]

I think it was 800 on the z690 and for the X299 I can't check it, pretty sure it was over 1k.
Some airflow over this board is not a bad thing anyways though

[ENTERPRISE]

  On 19/09/2022 at 17:48, Bastiaan_NL said:

I think it was 800 on the z690 and for the X299 I can't check it, pretty sure it was over 1k.
Some airflow over this board is not a bad thing anyways though

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Yeah I will see about popping some fans over the VRM's for sure!

[bonami2]

Kinda late to the thread but i would not go crazy about anything. I still overclock like a lazy ass with my 12700k. Increase multi and uncore and fixed voltage.  And some llc tweak. If it work pretty well on my 12700k i imagine this older chips would too  

 

Just went from 22k stock r23 to 25k from putting my my lazy overclock  

Edited September 21, 2022 by bonami2

[ENTERPRISE]

Update. 

 

4.7Ghz looks to be the best I can get due to temps. 1.29ish Vcore looks stable but still getting errors here and there in OCCT but not crashes. 

 

I looked at setting the cache Ratio to 44 Min and 46 Max but system would not post, so I will have to test some different value. 

 

I am now on an offset of -4 on AVX/AVX 512 as it required additional over the odds to be stable, so backed it off a little. Looking to avoid backing it off any more while not increasing Vcore, any other suggestions or is it a case I have to possibly back down on the AVX by -5 and go with that ? 

 

Do I need to bother with "Uncore" ? 

[Avacado]

  On 22/09/2022 at 17:56, ENTERPRISE said:

Update. 

 

4.7Ghz looks to be the best I can get due to temps. 1.29ish Vcore looks stable but still getting errors here and there in OCCT but not crashes. 

 

I looked at setting the cache Ratio to 44 Min and 46 Max but system would not post, so I will have to test some different value. 

 

I am now on an offset of -4 on AVX/AVX 512 as it required additional over the odds to be stable, so backed it off a little. Looking to avoid backing it off any more while not increasing Vcore, any other suggestions or is it a case I have to possibly back down on the AVX by -5 and go with that ? 

 

Do I need to bother with "Uncore" ? 

Expand  

Uncore is cache. On newer boards you can set the voltage for Vcore and Uncore seperate. My guess is that you would need more voltage to run even 44. -3 rule, If your max CPU freq is 47 now, I would set ring to 40 min/ 44 max. Cache always requires way more voltage at the same frequency than your core would require. I don't know what your requirements are for this system, but using OCCT to consider it to be "stable" is an antiquated theory. If you can pass a y-cruncher 2b run and a cinebench run, chances are you are going to be stable in almost everything else. I do however get it if you require the system never fails. You shouldn't have to set a matching offset for AVX2 compared to AVX512. I would try -4/5 for 512 and see if -1/2 works for AVX2. I gave you the 44min/46max setting to pair with a CPU frequency of 50, so it no longer works with 47 freq

Edited September 22, 2022 by Avacado

[ENTERPRISE]

  On 22/09/2022 at 18:18, Avacado said:

Uncore is cache. On newer boards you can set the voltage for Vcore and Uncore seperate. My guess is that you would need more voltage to run even 44. -3 rule, If your max CPU freq is 47 now, I would set ring to 40 min/ 44 max. Cache always requires way more voltage at the same frequency than your core would require. I don't know what your requirements are for this system, but using OCCT to consider it to be "stable" is an antiquated theory. If you can pass a y-cruncher 2b run and a cinebench run, chances are you are going to be stable in almost everything else. I do however get it if you require the system never fails. You shouldn't have to set a matching offset for AVX2 compared to AVX512. I would try -4/5 for 512 and see if -1/2 works for AVX2. I gave you the 44min/46max setting to pair with a CPU frequency of 50, so it no longer works with 47 freq

Expand  

Thanks for the info. Will delve back into it and see where I get with it. OCCT is not the only tool I would use for stability testing for sure. It was the first one im using, I wanted to get stable in that and then test in cinebench etc for additional validation. 

 

This system will be used for Folding and Solidworks related work.

[ENTERPRISE]

Well, 

 

Delved into this again. I ended up getting confused when I had set the CPU core ratio 47x, why when running OCCT it was running at 41x. I of course then realised its because I had set AVX-512 workloads to 41x. Simple, yet threw me. 

 

So im changing my approach. Will find my max stable CPU Core OC. Then will find my maximum AVX-512 offset (currently at -7). 

 

Then should be OK. 

 

Does the AVX-512 have its own voltage setting or just ratio offset ? 

 

I looked at my Min/Max cache ratio. Looks like others on the web are using 32x when at 4.7Ghz Core. Just wondering, do I have to tweak the cache ratio or can I just leave it to Auto ? 

[Avacado]

  On 26/09/2022 at 17:46, ENTERPRISE said:

Well, 

 

Delved into this again. I ended up getting confused when I had set the CPU core ratio 47x, why when running OCCT it was running at 41x. I of course then realised its because I had set AVX-512 workloads to 41x. Simple, yet threw me. 

 

So im changing my approach. Will find my max stable CPU Core OC. Then will find my maximum AVX-512 offset (currently at -7). 

 

Then should be OK. 

 

Does the AVX-512 have its own voltage setting or just ratio offset ? 

 

I looked at my Min/Max cache ratio. Looks like others on the web are using 32x when at 4.7Ghz Core. Just wondering, do I have to tweak the cache ratio or can I just leave it to Auto ? 

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If you are having issues with cache, auto is fine. AVX does not have it's own voltage. Whatever goes to the CPU is for all instruction sets. This is where not actually using this platform is hurting my ability to help. 32x cache at 4.7GHz is hella low (at least for regular K CPUs). I think you are right to find your max stable OC, then go from there as far as AVX/Mem/cache.