notebookcheck Intel Arrow Lake CPUs touted as first products "influenced" by Royal Core project could ditch Hyper-Threading

[bonami2]

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In line with our assertion, the latest leak from Moore’s Law Is Dead alleges that the performance estimates that igor’s Lab leaked could be of early samples and not the “final projections”.

One of leaker’s Intel insiders suggested that the performance demonstrated by igor’s Lab “lines up” with a physical A0 sample that was tested back in Q2 2023. The 24-core sample yielded 3-20% performance gain over the Core i9-13900K. Despite convincingly beating the Core i9-13900K, the insider claimed that the ARL chip was an “i7-tier” product without Hyper-threading (HT) and with potentially reduced clock speeds.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Arrow-Lake-CPUs-touted-as-first-products-influenced-by-Royal-Core-project-could-ditch-Hyper-Threading-altogether.736036.0.html

[The Pook]

I saw the video a few days ago. My tin foil hat theory is that the gains with HT disabled are high enough so that they can remove it and still have the performance crown. Then they'll just add it back a generation or two later when AMD responds with something that dethrones it. 

 

Unless it's unable to use HT because of some architecture difference, at least. I don't understand why they'd remove it otherwise.

 

[UltraMega]

1 hour ago, The Pook said:

I saw the video a few days ago. My tin foil hat theory is that the gains with HT disabled are high enough so that they can remove it and still have the performance crown. Then they'll just add it back a generation or two later when AMD responds with something that dethrones it. 

 

Unless it's unable to use HT because of some architecture difference, at least. I don't understand why they'd remove it otherwise.

 

 

 

I guess because they are unable, and they plan to replace HT soon anyway. 

 

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Assuming ARL chips lack any HT, the question becomes: Why?

 

Per MLID, Intel’s original plans for Arrow Lake included HT, but the company couldn’t get either 2-way or 4-way HT working on the Lion Cove P-cores and ultimately decided to ditch the technology not to delay ARL’s launch. The leaker maintains that Arrow Lake is the first product that is “influenced” by Jim Keller’s Royal Core project. Among other Royal Core ideas like 4-way HT and new instructions, Intel is reportedly planning to replace HT with “Rentable Units (RU)” and the company decided it wasn’t wise to commit resources to get HT working on ARL when it is going to get removed altogether in Royal Core products.

 

Unfortunately, the leaker doesn’t share any information regarding Rentable Units. As such, we don’t know what they are or how they work. So, we’ll have to wait and see if the technology ever shows up and, if it does, how does it differ from traditional HT.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by UltraMega

[bonami2]

2 hours ago, The Pook said:

I saw the video a few days ago. My tin foil hat theory is that the gains with HT disabled are high enough so that they can remove it and still have the performance crown. Then they'll just add it back a generation or two later when AMD responds with something that dethrones it. 

 

Unless it's unable to use HT because of some architecture difference, at least. I don't understand why they'd remove it otherwise.

 

Ht is to reduce thread stall and increase work done per clock cycle i think.

An Ai chip included in the CPU Or Software side could probably do a better job at scheduling than HT.

 

No idea if what i says make sense haha.

[The Pook]

9 minutes ago, bonami2 said:

An Ai chip included in the CPU Or Software side could probably do a better job at scheduling than HT.

 

 

we don't know the specifics on RUs but the article makes it sound like the only reason they removed it was to avoid a delay: 

 

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Per MLID, Intel’s original plans for Arrow Lake included HT, but the company couldn’t get either 2-way or 4-way HT working on the Lion Cove P-cores and ultimately decided to ditch the technology not to delay ARL’s launch.

 

my tin foil hat theory: "ditch the technology not to delay" = "coming later when more opportunistic"

 

boring theory: "we tried but it's impossible" 

 

[bonami2]

19 minutes ago, The Pook said:

 

 

we don't know the specifics on RUs but the article makes it sound like the only reason they removed it was to avoid a delay: 

 

 

my tin foil hat theory: "ditch the technology not to delay" = "coming later when more opportunistic"

 

boring theory: "we tried but it's impossible" 

 

 

They put HT on a Pentium 4. I think they can do it. It possible though.   Add HT and 3d cache at once to completly wipe Amd of the map

[GanjaSMK]

I theorize with pure spitball nature that the 'rental unit' thing is some kinda of pending clock cycle / register that somehow intelligently stacks loads based on some crazy algorithm that does black magic and splits full single core-only workloads across all available cores or something crazier like renting GPU cycles to process some random stuff. 

 

No clue. LOL.