Sir Beregond

Yeah I agree Pio. And to be clear inflation, wafer costs, R&D, and Ultra'a point about Moore'a Law, etc, I definitely don't expect the flagship gaming card to still be $500 or even $700. But $1600 ain't it. That price is simply a result of greed on Nvidia's part and getting the consumer used to such drastic price increases over what flagship cost literally 3 gens ago which in the grand scheme is not that long ago. I think the 4090 is a fantastic card on performance, despite earlier rumors, upon release it's clear it's much more power efficient than Ampere in normal use, and from an enthusiast perspective that makes it an awesome card that I except to see great things from on this site (and have already) from J7SC and Jan. Just because it's a great enthusiast card does not make it or Nvidia immune from me calling out issues I see as noted above in my earlier posts. I feel like on the whole that the enthusiast market of the past few years has not called this out. Halo products have always existed but what we've seen is a subtle yet effective marketing strategy that has changed what is what and how much it costs over the past 10 years. An 80-class card in 2010 means something completely different from what 80-class means now and this is the obfuscation of the market Nvidia has largely succeeded in over the last decade.

I think you are conflating my critiquing of the naming, branding, pricing as me calling it a bad card. It's not. The 4090 is a great card and I have said that. I mean its really the first real true 4k120 card. That's freaking amazing. And also, I have only ever congratulated folks on here who got one (you and Jan), and looked forward to seeing what you could do with these monster cards, so please don't feel like I am attacking you. I'm not. I've also never argued that the 90-class cards can't be used in use cases that Titans previously occupied. However, this is the key point, they are still not actually Titans. Why does that make it $1600 aside from branding changes? The 1080 Ti was $699. There was no "90" in that series. Why is the 4090 $1600? How is a 4090 as it relates to it's generation any different than what the 1080 Ti was to the Pascal generation aside from VRAM amount? Obviously different architectures and such, but I am saying look at them as they existed in their respective gens at those times. How are the cards different aside from VRAM? To my knowledge 90's still have the same limitations GeForce has always had versus actual Titans and if we look at the x80 Ti cards since the 90 cards released, its clear they have shifted down and are no longer the flagship cards. So functionally Nvidia manipulated the branding the shift flagship gaming cards which just happen to overlap with Titan cards use cases up and everything else below the stack moved right along up with it and most consumers are not seeing this and are just buying the "its really a Titan" messaging coming from Nvidia, yet how many people are buying these for gaming vs workstation...I don't know, but I see the Reddit posts.

No, I don't agree with this at all. Yet 90's still have limitations on them that Titans did not in that "dual space" unless something has changed that I am not aware of. Specifically look at tensor operations and openGL stuff. When the 3090 released, it performed worse than the Titan RTX at certain workloads because of said limitations inherent to GeForce products and not to actual Titans. So unless that has changed, I am going to say no, its not a Titan. And simply having 24GB of VRAM does not make it a Titan. It certainly helps with some use cases Titans had, but in and of itself did not define what a Titan was. In fact if you look at every generation since Kepler how the Titan class card and the top consumer class gaming card related to each other was different. Sometimes the Titan was the fastest card of a generation, sometimes the x80 Ti card was faster than the Titan. Sometimes the Titan had double the VRAM of the flagship gaming card, sometimes it was only marginally different. One thing was clear though, the Titan or the x80 Ti card of any given generation was the fastest. Now we have no actual Titan card, the actual x80 Ti card is a cut down card (looking at you 3080 Ti) at the same cost of the previous generation's flagship card, meanwhile the 90-card comes out and is justifying the price increase by being "Titan-ish" in its marketing. Now let's really show the switcheroo here. During the 30-series announcement, Jensen called the 3080 his new flagship and then said hey buy the way here's a bigger Ampere we're calling the 3090. Fast forward two years, does anyone think the 3080 was the flagship card of Ampere? No. Does anyone actually think the 3080 Ti was the flagship card of Ampere? No. Also then look at the 40-series announcement. The card that was spent the most time on was the 4090 when talking about the gaming portion of the announcement and in a stark contrast, the 4080's were just sort of mentioned as an after though. That tells me all I need to know and Nvidia knows they won that marketing switcheroo. No one would call the 4080 a "flagship". Sorry Nvidia, I'm not buying the BS. What's the 4080 Ti going to be? A $1200-$1400 even further cut down card because even that money they can't bother to give the peasants a flagship without compromises? Hell, the 4090 is a cut down card still, at $1600. Ridiculous. No. I'm sorry, you and I will just have to agree to disagree on what a 90-card is. Its a rebranding of what x80 Ti cards used to be while pretending its a "Titan" because it has 24GB of VRAM like that means something when in actuality Nvidia stagnated their VRAM increases since Pascal. Kepler doubled from Fermi. Maxwell doubled from Kepler. Pascal doubled from Maxwell. And then suddenly Turing stays same as Pascal except for the Titan RTX at 24GB, and Ampere only marginally increased from Turing at any segment that wasn't the 90-cards. Had we been following trends with Titans, an actual Titan card would probably have 48GB by now. Certainly nothing a gaming card needs. Hell 24GB can be argued about whether a gaming card needs, but it was consistent with VRAM increased trending before it stagnated. Sorry, ending my rant. I get pissed off about the marketing deception and what "Titan like" actually means and why the introduction of "90" cards as a concept piss me off because how is a 3090 Ti any different to its generation than a 1080 Ti was to the Pascal generation except for the name and with it, the price. I normally don't put much stock in anything coming from LTT, yet was one of the few people that called out the 3090 as not being an actual Titan.

You didn't do anything wrong. She was pulled way far out, you can see that at the start...and why she'd start going with a car directly in front of her... Yeah I'd be curious if under the influence or just dumb.

I don't think I have that tool, but will take a look after work today.

Yep, done with that game. I'll buy whatever does 4k120 at $700 max in a few years. $1600 4090 is a joke (performance is good, price is not). I say that because all a 4090 is, is a rebrand of what used to be the cheaper x80 Ti which is a rebrand of what used to be the cheaper x80 (back in Fermi days), which was the top end card/chip. But hey its got a new number so we can charge whatever apparently. And so the consumer gets obfuscated. "But it's only $100 more than the 3090 was!". Yeah and the 3090 was a 2080 Ti replacement with a $300 increase and the 2080 Ti was a $500 increase over the 1080 Ti? Anyone notice a trend here? They then tried to say the 90's were "Titans", but last I checked the Titan RTX (last actual Titan) was $2500. You ever know Nvidia to lower prices? Yeah I thought not. 90's were 80 Ti replacements with a price increase, plain and simple, but the market got suckered by the new branding.

I just like how these are called "lol projects".

I don't know. I am seeing new stock of 3080, 3080 Ti, 3090, 3090 Ti dry up locally at Micro Center, same when looking online at places like Newegg. As for the used market, I feel the big mining sell off already happened. Anything there now is anyone else or miners who waited too long.

How long does a bake job keep it up for? I imagine it will break again down the line?

Shame. I don't have any modern consoles so didn't know.

Yeah one could easily create a Steam library on there and have it for extra storage or on the go. I hadn't been keeping up with external storage really and was surprised to see how far its come.

You know, I never even thought of the potential work aspect of this, what a great point. In the past I have had to get creative with running games off an external drive in certain circumstances and something like this would have been perfect.

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Yeah same. This is what a halo product is supposed to be. Not whatever nonsense is going on in GPU land.

Yeah I've been getting this a lot lately, so I am going to make an appt to get in fairly soon, but its like $2200 for them to do another endoscopy so I haven't been quick on doing so. After that I'll actually hit my damn deductible. Sigh.

Damn sorry to hear about all the issues and chronic pain you guys are dealing with. I have one chronic issue that's not really pain, but can be if I am not careful. I have a nice combo of a 2 inch hiatal hernia which results in basically 24/7 acid reflux issues, and another condition called Eosinophilic Esophagitis (called EoE for short). Suffice to say one or the other is bad enough, combined its a constant battle to not have an overly damaged esophagus (had grade D esophagitis for probably a longer time than I thought). Damage culminating in severe narrowing, inflammation, and tears of the lower esophagus. If I don't manage it well enough it gets pretty bad. So for now I am on twice daily Esomeprazole, once before bed Famotidine, and oddly enough asthma medicine (Flovent) for the EoE, but its swallowed to coat the esophagus, not inhaled. Despite all this I am still having nightly acid reflux issues, so liquid Gaviscon is always handy. The background to discovering I had any of these issues was for years having difficulty swallowing food, mostly at the first bite and always immediately needing something to drink with it. It culminated to one day swallowing a small piece of beef and suddenly having the sensation I was choking even though I could breath fine. During the 3 hours the piece of meat was lodged in that lower part of my esophagus almost to my stomach, it was a non-stop gag reflex that would culminate in many vomiting sessions even with nothing left to get rid of, and strictly only kept occurring because the gag reflux would not subside. A trip to the urgent care, they tried muscle relaxants that did ease the muscle and the meat passed. At that time they assumed it was a one time thing and didn't even think there was a chronic underlying issue. Fast forward a few months after that and I once again have an issue and this time go to the ER as its even worse. This time they have a gastroenterologist on staff who proceeds to perform and upper endoscopy to remove the lodged food. He was also able to dilate my esophagus so that it was stretched back out to appropriate size. From there I was directed to see him at his normal practice. We started on meds and I had a proper exploratory upper endoscopy. Here they discovered the 2 inch hiatal hernia and the full extend of esophageal damage. The first round of meds helped but didn't work sufficiently and I started having swallowing issues again a few months later. They gave me another endoscopy to stretch out my esophagus again and then change up my medication to what it is now. A year later we did another upper endoscopy to monitor if current treatment was working and it seemed to be healing quite nicely. They also took the opportunity to gather some data by attaching a Bravo device to the side of my esophagus. It basically monitored acid levels for 3-4 days before it falls off and passes. Basically 3 out of the 4 days I had acid that was reaching up into my esophagus...the worst part was that I didn't even notice as none of those were the result of a full blown acid reflux attack. Anyway, I am due to go back in to see how things are again, and my guess is re-stretch out my esophagus yet again as I am slowly starting to get issue swallowing food again. I've also been getting repeated acid reflux attacks at night recently, so I am inclined to think current treatment plan and daily medication isn't doing well enough to keep things at bay. Makes me wonder if they will want to do something about the hernia, but they hadn't wanted to touch it previously. So I don't know. Anyway, that's my chronic thing.

Nice! My wife picked up a Roccat over the summer and really likes it a lot better than the K70 she had before.

I mostly followed this video. He conceptualizes what Curve Optimizer does pretty well and the concept of tuning for maximum boosts vs maximum curve. Again, don't copy his settings, but its a good way to learn what does what. I put my CO back to auto for now. Seems my config I posted earlier still has some instability in it.

Definitely seems like a better chip!

Keep in mind, boosts of 5GHz or more is just that...boosts of 1,2, maybe more cores at a time if they are good enough. It's not an all-core boosts, that would be impossible without sub-ambient cooling. Like I said before, max I can get all-core is 4.65GHz and that's at the threshold of voltage/thermals to get. Yeah, maybe you did have a 5900X that just didn't have the best silicon. Seems extremely strange to me that an undervolt gave you lower clocks. Just looking at your screenshots again...do you have Curve Optimizer just set to "Auto" or how is that being handled?

You don't want a positive offset. You'll want a negative one. Try 0.025v, maybe more, or less. How much were you undervolting? I really think you have some conflict between the Extreme Tweaker settings and AMD Overclock settings. What you describe just doesn't sound right at all in terms of how it's acting. Slight undervolt should absolutely be giving you higher boosts, not lower boosts. I have gone as high as 5150MHz boosts with PBO/undervolting. Just because cores are hitting 5100MHz, shouldn't in and of itself hard lock you, so something screwy is going on that's making this not stable. I'll doublecheck what my other voltage settings are when I get home again today. I'd say when you get the new chip, do a CMOS reset and start with a fresh BIOS. So probably save or write down whatever tweaks you've made for your RAM if your RAM has been stable. Though depending on what your new chip can do for fclk, might be reworking that anyway. Can't say I've ever bought a processor on Amazon. I'm one of those lucky people with a Micro Center within 40 minutes of me.

Happy Thanksgiving! Thankful you're still with us Jan.