3 yr old PC needs some love - Upgrading GPU to water cooling - Which Radiator?

[UltraMega]

Just now, DinoBull said:

I'd likely sell them. The RTX 2080 ti is still fetching $300 - $400 USD on ebay. New they are still crazy expensive! Ive seen them at $1200! Silly when you can now get more powerful cards at $800.

I do a lot on ebay. I checked and the loswest buy it now price for a 2080Ti is ~$250, which means that's about what it would sell for. After ebay fees and tax, you would get about $200 for it. 

[Avacado]

Yea, EVGA has fairly new 2080Ti's on B-Stock for $450 right now. 

 

https://www.evga.com/products/ProductList.aspx?type=8&family=GeForce+20+Series+Family&chipset=RTX+2080+Ti

[DinoBull]

This thread has taken a turn from:

I'm going to water cool my GPU and I need radiator suggestions

TO

I might scrap that idea and upgrade the GPU instead for about the same cost

 

Now considering the purchase of an RTX 4070 ti since that is what I was going to spend water cooling my RTX 2080 ti. Better still i'd sell the old GPU for a couple hundred and actually spend less than water cooling the GPU... Thoughts?

[pio]

19 minutes ago, DinoBull said:

This thread has taken a turn from:

I'm going to water cool my GPU and I need radiator suggestions

TO

I might scrap that idea and upgrade the GPU instead for about the same cost

 

Now considering the purchase of an RTX 4070 ti since that is what I was going to spend water cooling my RTX 2080 ti. Better still i'd sell the old GPU for a couple hundred and actually spend less than water cooling the GPU... Thoughts?

Like I said earlier, it ALL depends on games you play and the goals you have for that rig.  If you're happy with the 2080Ti's performance, or maybe if you want just a LITTLE BIT more performance out of it (like 1-3%), then water cool it.  If you want it to be a neater looking rig, water cool it.  You want silence?  Water cool.  If you're after a bigger jump in performance, new GPU / CPU depending (in this case GPU).

 

Basically, what I'm getting at here is that water cooling isn't going to net you any increase in performance.  At least nothing tangible.  Yes, you'll be able to overclock a little bit more.  But is that overclock going to be worth the money invested to get it for such a small percentage increase?  No.  People that water cool proper, do it for other reasons.  Keeping the same loop for years (as mentioned by Avacado earlier).  Silence.  Higher performance across multiple builds by just changing the blocks out.  The looks of water cooling.  DIY'ing and building something custom 100% yourself.  There's many reasons why people water cool.  But to make a big leap in performance, that's not one of them.

[UltraMega]

27 minutes ago, DinoBull said:

This thread has taken a turn from:

I'm going to water cool my GPU and I need radiator suggestions

TO

I might scrap that idea and upgrade the GPU instead for about the same cost

 

Now considering the purchase of an RTX 4070 ti since that is what I was going to spend water cooling my RTX 2080 ti. Better still i'd sell the old GPU for a couple hundred and actually spend less than water cooling the GPU... Thoughts?

Do it. 4070Ti is a solid 40% faster than the 2080Ti. Definitely a much bigger jump than you would get from water cooling anything you currently have. 

 

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Edited January 12, 2023 by UltraMega

[pio]

Isn't the 3090 faster than the 4070Ti?  I'd almost rather grab a used 3090 personally for that kinda scratch.  More VRAM available to it too, for the higher resolutions.

[UltraMega]

33 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

Isn't the 3090 faster than the 4070Ti?  I'd almost rather grab a used 3090 personally for that kinda scratch.  More VRAM available to it too, for the higher resolutions.

The 4070ti beats the 3090 in most cases. 

[J7SC_Orion]

8 hours ago, DinoBull said:

One of my old builds (The White Kraken (2019) by chrisjmartini - Intel Core i9-9900K, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic ATX Full Tower - PCPartPicker) is in need of an upgrade to stretch it's life expectancy 2 or 3 more years. I have already decided that upgrading the gpu or cpu doesn't make sense as the board is a z390 and the gpu and cpu are already maxxed out (i9 9900k) for this configuration. Any newer GPU would suffer a bottleneck due to the PCIe version and other limitations. I have been building PCs for over 25 years but have never tried liquid cooling. My intent is to dip my toe into liquid cooling that GPU (EVGA RTX 2080 ti XC Ultra Gaming). The CPU already has an AIO liquid cooler installed that is good enough and should last a few more years. So i'm only considering the GPU cooling loop for now. I want the cooling to be optimized to push the boost clock and memory of the GPU as high as possible. The stock dual fan/heatsink on this card is already excellent, but likely no match for a higher end liquid cooling solution. Also of note: This PC has 12 fans! So I was looking to simply repurpose and not add any additional fans. Until someone commented that my fans have a static pressure value that is too low (1.4mm) for push pull on a decent radiator.
I have done a ton of research preparing for this but I am still a little unsure as to which radiator to use. I need some thoughtful suggestions from experienced liquid cooling gurus. The basic parts list so far (not counting the fittings & bending kit):

• Corsair Hydro X Series XD5 RGB Pump/Reservoir Combo
• Watercool Heatkiller IV for RTX 2080 Ti - Acrylic + Nickel, RGB (also with a passive backplate)
• Hydro X Series XT Hardline 14mm tubing
• Radiator - 360mm, likely a push or pull configuration and top mounted. The best performing rads seem to be:
  • Aquacomputer airplex radical 2/360, copper fins (the fin density on this rad is low, so a push or pull config should work)
  • Corsair Hydro X Series XR5 360mm Water Cooling Radiator
  • EK Quantum Surface P360M (Love the look of this rad, but that thickness and fin density seems to indicate I would need a push/pull config. That would not fit the top clearance in my case)

Suggestions on what 360mm radiator to use?

 

 

That's a nice-looking build. 

 

My go-to rads are either triple-core 480s or triple / dual-core 360s copper/brass rads....generally, the thicker and more cores, the better - especially with the latest-gen CPUs and GPUs which have boost algorithms which use temps as a major input. Since you want to / need to stick to 360s re. available space, I highly recommend the > XSPC RX 360  - I have six of those in use (some continuously from as far back as 2013) in several builds with zero problems. Great performance and quality.

 

FYI, 2nd slide below is an old pic looking at a 360 single-core from a Corsair H150i Pro AIO and a TT CL 360 triple core (64 mm thick) - obviously, much better cooling than a single-core 360 but that might not fit your build, not least as with those, you probably should use push-pull fans...can't really go wrong with the XSPX 360 V3 though, subject to making sure it fits.

 

RX 360s in the back row

  

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by J7SC_Orion

[DinoBull]

2 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

Isn't the 3090 faster than the 4070Ti?  I'd almost rather grab a used 3090 personally for that kinda scratch.  More VRAM available to it too, for the higher resolutions.

On paper, the 3090 looks like an absolute beast of a card. And it is:

 

Specs	RTX 4070 Ti	RTX 3090
Architecture	Lovelace	Ampere
Stream Processors / CUDA Cores	7680	1,0496
Boost Clock (GHz)	2.61	1.70
Base Clock (GHz)	2.31	1.40
GDDR6X Memory	12GB	24GB
Memory interface	192-bit	384-bit
Maximum Resolution	7680 x 4320	7680 x 4320
Connectivity	HDMI 2.1a 3 x Display Port	HDMI 2.1a, 3 x DP 1.4a
Dimensions	285 x 112 x 42 mm	313 x 138mm
Recommended Power Supply	750W	750W

 

HOWEVER: Lovelace architecture is way more efficient with 3rd generation ray tracing cores and 4th generation Tensor cores. As a result, the 4070 ti is able to compute ray tracing and make use of use of its neural graphics more efficiently, giving you more computing power for less electricity. 

 

The upshot of this is that the 4070 ti is the more powerful card despite its smaller bus width and memory size. In fact, the 4070 ti is more powerful than the 3090 ti, an incredible statistic that is a testament to the breakthroughs the Lovelace architecture made.

 

Also, it uses far less power than the 3090, on average around 41% less.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by DinoBull

[DinoBull]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

That's a nice-looking build. 

 

My go-to rads are either triple-core 480s or triple / dual-core 360s copper/brass rads....generally, the thicker and more cores, the better - especially with the latest-gen CPUs and GPUs which have boost algorithms which use temps as a major input. Since you want to / need to stick to 360s re. available space, I highly recommend the > XSPC RX 360  - I have six of those in use (some continuously from as far back as 2013) in several builds with zero problems. Great performance and quality.

 

FYI, 2nd slide below is an old pic looking at a 360 single-core from a Corsair H150i Pro AIO and a TT CL 360 triple core (64 mm thick) - obviously, much better cooling than a single-core 360 but that might not fit your build, not least as with those, you probably should use push-pull fans...can't really go wrong with the XSPX 360 V3 though, subject to making sure it fits.

 

RX 360s in the back row

  

 

 

 

 

Wow, you are truly a water cooling veteran. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

My CPU AIO cooler uses a 360 rad that is side vertically mounted in the case. I customized it a little with a push/pull configuration with the fans on that since there was enough space. However, for the space the GPU Rad will sit in (top), not enough space for a rad + the push fans + the pull fans. When added up, the height encroaches into the motherboard and AIO tubes for the CPU.

 

I may opt for just upgrading the GPU anyhow. It seems to be more cost effective performance-wise over the small performance improvements water cooling yields in this case.

[J7SC_Orion]

47 minutes ago, DinoBull said:

Wow, you are truly a water cooling veteran. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

My CPU AIO cooler uses a 360 rad that is side vertically mounted in the case. I customized it a little with a push/pull configuration with the fans on that since there was enough space. However, for the space the GPU Rad will sit in (top), not enough space for a rad + the push fans + the pull fans. When added up, the height encroaches into the motherboard and AIO tubes for the CPU.

 

I may opt for just upgrading the GPU anyhow. It seems to be more cost effective performance-wise over the small performance improvements water cooling yields in this case.

  

...I used to build in regular cases, but not anymore...just be cautious because of the 'slippery slope', a GPU upgrade invariably leads to other upgrades...I use computers for both work and play and recently replaced the 3090 from my sig rig with a 4090 (left pic, right GPU)...the 3090 went into another work build (w/2x 2080 Tis) for some light ML and serious rendering (right pic). Now I am thinking about a mobo / CPU upgrade for the left side...

 

I use oversize water-cooling because the machines have to be, and are, absolutely silent, even the 4090 with a custom vbios at just about 700 W on its own...the 'left pic' setup has a combined 2520 x 63 rads and Arctic p12 pwm pst push-pull fans throughout...did I mention the slippery slope ? 

 

[acoustic]

Lots of good discussion in this thread.

 

my .2c, is any funds would be far better spent on a new GPU rather than water-cooling older hardware. I think out of all the poor pricing from NV, outside the 4090, the 4070TI is the most “stomachable” of the options. It hurts to recommend it, because NV really doesn’t deserve to be rewarded for their poor pricing strategies, but ultimately it would be a significant upgrade from the 2080TI, and after selling the 2080TI, the cost wouldn’t be mostly fair.

 

I think you’ll find the watercooling itch you’re beginning to get will only grow with time.. so I’m sure you’ll end up building a loop in the near future anyway.

 

Another thing to consider, is the fact that DLSS3 seems to alleviate some CPU limitation when it’s in use, and you’ll be able to utilize DLSS3 with a Lovelace arch GPU. I’m not a big proponent of the whole “FAKE FRAMES” thing, but it’s certainly something else that could be considered.

Edited January 12, 2023 by acoustic

[Sir Beregond]

22 hours ago, DinoBull said:

 

Good point RE: cooling parts life span.

 

All good suggestions on the radiators. Hardware labs also make the Corsair XR5 & XR7 Rads AFAIK. That's why I have the XR5 as a potential on the list.

 

Thanks for the reassurance on the aquacomputer rad. I live in California, which is normally very dry with low humidity anyways. So if I do choose that radiator, It'll likely be fine.

Corsair XR5 and XR7 radiators are rebrands of the lower end HWLabs L-series rads, with a markup and as such often end up selling for the same price as the higher end HWLabs Nemesis line. Same money spent you can get the Nemesis rads instead of paying the Corsair tax for lower end radiators.

 

I'd also avoid the Corsair pump/res combo. For the money spent its not only an underpowered pump, its cheap plastic materials. You get much higher material quality with Aquacomputer Ultitube, Bitspower, and Heatkiller would all be better options.

 

9 hours ago, acoustic said:

Lots of good discussion in this thread.

 

my .2c, is any funds would be far better spent on a new GPU rather than water-cooling older hardware. I think out of all the poor pricing from NV, outside the 4090, the 4070TI is the most “stomachable” of the options. It hurts to recommend it, because NV really doesn’t deserve to be rewarded for their poor pricing strategies, but ultimately it would be a significant upgrade from the 2080TI, and after selling the 2080TI, the cost wouldn’t be mostly fair.

 

I think you’ll find the watercooling itch you’re beginning to get will only grow with time.. so I’m sure you’ll end up building a loop in the near future anyway.

 

Another thing to consider, is the fact that DLSS3 seems to alleviate some CPU limitation when it’s in use, and you’ll be able to utilize DLSS3 with a Lovelace arch GPU. I’m not a big proponent of the whole “FAKE FRAMES” thing, but it’s certainly something else that could be considered.

 

You're not wrong about needing to think if its worthwhile to watercool older parts. That said a 2080 Ti is roughly equivalent to 3070/3070 Ti performance. For the money spent for a 4070 Ti which is roughly 3090/3090 Ti performance, yes its an uplift with newer feature, better RT, etc, but I don't know, doesn't seem worth it to me for the money. But you've definitely given OP some thoughts to consider. The DLSS and newer RT cores if you care about RT will certainly be an uplift over the 2080 Ti.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Sir Beregond