Ryzen 7000 / Zen 4 Owner's Club

[J7SC_Orion]

@ENTERPRISE @Bastiaan_NL  et al  ...DDR 5 8000+ rabbit hole dive on 7950X3D - so far, looks good on stress testing though I'm still fine-tuning some the voltages..

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by J7SC_Orion

[ENTERPRISE]

13 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

@ENTERPRISE @Bastiaan_NL  et al  ...DDR 5 8000+ rabbit hole dive on 7950X3D - so far, looks good on stress testing though I'm still fine-tuning some the voltages..

 

 

 

Nice ! What was the original speeds of that kit ? Is it Hynix A Die ?

[J7SC_Orion]

2 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Nice ! What was the original speeds of that kit ? Is it Hynix A Die ?

 

...this is a relatively new Hynix M-die. Kit is GSkill's 2x 24 GB DDR5 7200 ...turned out to be a fantastic overclocking kit at modest voltages  

[ENTERPRISE]

7 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

...this is a relatively new Hynix M-die. Kit is GSkill's 2x 24 GB DDR5 7200 ...turned out to be a fantastic overclocking kit at modest voltages  

Thanks for the update . That is a good OC. I have some Hynix A-Die coming in the form of Corsairs new Dominator Platinum for review. Its a 2x32Gb Kit @ 6000 MT/s, will be interesting to see how far I can push them while trying to keep the timings sensible.

[J7SC_Orion]

10 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Thanks for the update . That is a good OC. I have some Hynix A-Die coming in the form of Corsairs new Dominator Platinum for review. Its a 2x32Gb Kit @ 6000 MT/s, will be interesting to see how far I can push them while trying to keep the timings sensible.

 

...as long as you got the latest AGESA for your Ryzen 7k and latest bios, playing with DDR5 on this platform is a ton of fun (...and relatively easy). There are two schools of thought: Either run 1/1 for extra tight timings, or 1/2 ("gear 2") for extra bandwidth. According to folks like Buildzoid, by about DDR5 7600 or higher, the latter starts to make sense for most app. FYI, I can also run up to DDR5 6400 (6500 w/bclk) with this very same kit - for now, both settings have the same primary timings which are the nominal ones for this kit (that may change later during the late fall)...secondary and other subtimings are a different matter, though  

[kaliz]

Really want to get those 24GB M-die sticks , but now running 8000C34-45 with 16GB A-die is about the best AM5 can handle. Even C32 for some benching, dont think the new M-die can do that?

 

[J7SC_Orion]

2 hours ago, kaliz said:

Really want to get those 24GB M-die sticks , but now running 8000C34-45 with 16GB A-die is about the best AM5 can handle. Even C32 for some benching, dont think the new M-die can do that?

 

 

Great stuff !  
Please note that I am new to DDR5 (barely 2 weeks or so, with interruptions) and certainly still have a lot to learn and try... I know my kit can run CL32 (7200 shown is native but got higher on the other machine)...I also have hit over DDR5 8100 'by mistake' when playing with bclk (see green and orange below), never mind IF 2277 (w/o crashing when doing CPU-Z ???). Again, that was accidental - playing around after first-ever boot-up.

 

I should also note that this kit is an Intel kit with XMP and it has no EXPO, but at least the 670E Aorus Master bios has a setting for XMP (never mind 'eclk' for the rainy season ). My focus though has been to get two settings all locked in at stock / nominal primary timings and thoroughly stress-tested - one for every-day gaming and the other for stable benching.

 

Buildzoid's vid - the one where where he hits 8000 for the first time ever with a nominal 8000 2x 24 GB M-die Intel kit that wouldn't even do 8000 on Intel but does do it on his AMD B650E Tachyon -  was also helpful once I realized I had a similar 2x 24 GB kit (at a great price). In fact, my 7200 nominal kit runs slightly tighter timings at lower voltages at 8000 compared to what he showed - I am thrilled with that as my board is the 4-Dimm 670E Master, not the 2-Dimm B650E Tachyon. Read-speeds approaching 102000 MB/s with is a really nice setting for the latest AAA gaming. Next step will be to thoroughly test lower CL for the 8000 daily setting - sadly, I ran out of Bios-profile slots as various permutations and combinations work / show promise even before I get to eclk and tighter CLs beyond just playing around. IMO, none of the mobo vendors I am aware of give you enough save-profile slots and also truncate the label length  

 

FYI, Buildzoid also mentioned that 1:2 (ie 8000) isn't quite as impactful on a single CCD CPU compared to a dual CCD CPU, apparently due to IF bandwidth limitations but your results seem to suggest otherwise. In any event,  DDR5 8000 is no longer off-limit to AMD Ryzen 7Ks 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by J7SC_Orion

[kaliz]

buildzoid videos are packed with info , really nice for a beginner!  The best source for DDR5 OC and stability information is ocn forum. 

With 7800X3D and 8000C34 vs 6600C26 i have virtually the same fps, pyprime, other benchmarks etc , thats on a single CCD, i think the difference with dual ccd is even more, so i would personally go with 1:2 on every AM5 chip.

 

Can you also use higher voltage on M-die modules? you only use 1,43v,  If you set 1,65v can you lower tCL and tRCD?

would really love to see a max tight OC on 8000 with them! can it do 8100C32-45-40-32 at 1,65v for example? with tight subs? How low can you set RRD's? with 16GB M-die they do 4 4 

and can you run yc or other RAM heavy benchmarks with it?

 

[J7SC_Orion]

22 hours ago, kaliz said:

buildzoid videos are packed with info , really nice for a beginner!  The best source for DDR5 OC and stability information is ocn forum. 

With 7800X3D and 8000C34 vs 6600C26 i have virtually the same fps, pyprime, other benchmarks etc , thats on a single CCD, i think the difference with dual ccd is even more, so i would personally go with 1:2 on every AM5 chip.

 

Can you also use higher voltage on M-die modules? you only use 1,43v,  If you set 1,65v can you lower tCL and tRCD?

would really love to see a max tight OC on 8000 with them! can it do 8100C32-45-40-32 at 1,65v for example? with tight subs? How low can you set RRD's? with 16GB M-die they do 4 4 

and can you run yc or other RAM heavy benchmarks with it?

 

 

...I'm not exactly a beginner when it gets to RAM overall (used to do sub-zero at HWBot), but this is my 1st DDR5 kit. DDR4 was easy, I only ran Samsung B-die 'GSkill GTZR' from 2015 - 2022. Funnily enough, this is my 4th AMD 16 Core CPU (incl. a TR) yet I have never owned an AMD specific microcode RAM kit, just always those marked 'Intel XMP'; seems to work for me though.

 

I will do some more RAM setup work and testing later in the coming week...I first want to finish the actual re-/build project of the dual-mobo single case setup because I also need one half of it back for work...

 

 

EDIT @kaliz :

..just did a super-quick test one over the lunch break. CL36 DDR5 8110 on the left (not yet optimized), including Superpi -- CL 30 DDR5  6400 (not even close to being optimized), including Superpi -- CL 36 DDR5 8030 (optimized and long-stress-tested).  CL28 6400 also possible, but this new type of 24 GB Hynix-M-die / Intel XMP is clearly laid out for speeds above 7200 - I might even try 8200 next weekend.

 

Please note that all voltages and sub-timings other than CL were the same for all three quickie tests and based on the fully tested 'daily DDR5 8000' setting.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by J7SC_Orion

[neurotix]

So much great info here and thanks so much for including ZenTimings in your screenshots.

 

I have G.skill Flare X B-Die DDR5 and run it super stable at 6200MHz cas 30 1.435v, with the IFclk at 2100MHz. VDD_SOC is 1.25v and VDD_MISC is 1.35v. Mem controller voltage is on Auto but giving it 1.465v or something like that.

 

It's passed 2 hours of Memtest86 and 4 hours of GSAT in a terminal in Linux Mint.

 

You guys have given me a LOT to catch up on and attempt. I will probably start with Orion's timings posted a ways back for 7600MHz and see how it goes or if my machine will even post. DDR4 B-Die loved and scaled well with voltage, so I may need to go over the 1.435v limit.

 

Also the system needs to be 120% stable as I run Linux for days on end, as a home server and as a folding box.

 

I probably can't get an identical M-Die  kit as my wife just bought me the new EK Nucleus Dark AIO as well as a Crucial T700 1TB gen 5 m.2 drive. She was not thrilled with either purchase. Can't put them in yet as I just had a serious hip surgery and am only 3 days post op.

 

Please keep up what you're doing though guys, rep all around as you are really pushing the limits of what's possible.

Edited September 11, 2023 by neurotix

[kaliz]

v misc at 1,35v? 

38 minutes ago, neurotix said:

So much great info here and thanks so much for including ZenTimings in your screenshots.

 

I have G.skill Flare X B-Die DDR5 and run it super stable at 6200MHz cas 30 1.435v, with the IFclk at 2100MHz. VDD_SOC is 1.25v and VDD_MISC is 1.35v. Mem controller voltage is on Auto but giving it 1.465v or something like that.

 

It's passed 2 hours of Memtest86 and 4 hours of GSAT in a terminal in Linux Mint.

 

You guys have given me a LOT to catch up on and attempt. I will probably start with Orion's timings posted a ways back for 7600MHz and see how it goes or if my machine will even post. DDR4 B-Die loved and scaled well with voltage, so I may need to go over the 1.435v limit.

 

Also the system needs to be 120% stable as I run Linux for days on end, as a home server and as a folding box.

 

I probably can't get an identical M-Die  kit as my wife just bought me the new EK Nucleus Dark AIO as well as a Crucial T700 1TB gen 5 m.2 drive. She was not thrilled with either purchase. Can't put them in yet as I just had a serious hip surgery and am only 3 days post op.

 

Please keep up what you're doing though guys, rep all around as you are really pushing the limits of what's possible.

samsung b-die is pretty decent, but anything beyond DDR5- 6600 is a pain! So if you really want such high speed DDR5 on AM5 you need a set of Hynix RAM, preferably 16Gbit A-die or 24gb M-die. If you cannot go passed 1,435v on your mobo i would just keep the Samsung kit, 6200C30 is nice, can you post a zentimings screenshot?

 

How do you like the Nucleus AiO? I have one in my AMD rig its good far. sometimes the pump make a little rattle noise at a certain rpm, but its fixed now.

 

 this is what im running , with PBO -50MHz en CO 2 best cores -15 rest -35, for the hwbot teamcup. i cannot get 5000MHz otherwise 

Edited September 11, 2023 by kaliz

[neurotix]

27 minutes ago, kaliz said:

v misc at 1,35v? 

samsung b-die is pretty decent, but anything beyond DDR5- 6600 is a pain! So if you really want such high speed DDR5 on AM5 you need a set of Hynix RAM, preferably 16Gbit A-die or 24gb M-die. If you cannot go passed 1,435v on your mobo i would just keep the Samsung kit, 6200C30 is nice, can you post a zentimings screenshot?

 

How do you like the Nucleus AiO? I have one in my AMD rig its good far. sometimes the pump make a little rattle noise at a certain rpm, but its fixed now.

 

 this is what im running , with PBO -50MHz en CO 2 best cores -15 rest -35, for the hwbot teamcup. i cannot get 5000MHz otherwise 

Thanks for the info on B-Die and going beyond 6600MHz. Repped. I won't bother then.

 

I have very very tight secondary and tertiary timings and great performance.

 

 

As you can see.

 

I will probably wait three months then ask for the M-Die kit that J7SC_Orion has lol

 

I cannot comment on the Nucleus AIO as it has not been installed yet. I had serious hip surgery on Friday and am 3 days post op. Pain is not too bad but the vicadin is making me nauseous. I have hip, neck and low back pain issues so my wife works on my rig most of the time now. The cooler is sitting on the table and I really want to put it in but it may only happen next weekend or the weekend after. Also putting in a 1TB Gen 5 m.2 drive then which she doesn't know how to do, and I will need to make backups during the week and use dd in Linux to image the existing drive then load it onto the new one and expand the partitions to fill the free space. I will probably also run CrystalDiskMark before and after to be able to prove/justify the upgrade to my wife. Lol.

 

Sorry for going a little off topic and big thanks to you for sparing me CMOS reset hell trying to OC my Ram that high.

Edited September 11, 2023 by neurotix

[kaliz]

looks very good timings are tight! i would set VMISC to 1,1v, as thats the standard. Sorry to hear about you in pain man that * sucks. Hope the misses can get you some assistance with the PC

[neurotix]

11 minutes ago, kaliz said:

looks very good timings are tight! i would set VMISC to 1,1v, as thats the standard. Sorry to hear about you in pain man that * sucks. Hope the misses can get you some assistance with the PC

 

Thanks, kaliz.

 

Yeah we'll do my upgrades when I can put TIM on the block and install the new m.2 drive. She'll help a lot getting my old cooler out and the board out since this cooler requires a custom backplate for AM5 afaik.

[J7SC_Orion]

2 hours ago, neurotix said:

 

Thanks, kaliz.

 

Yeah we'll do my upgrades when I can put TIM on the block and install the new m.2 drive. She'll help a lot getting my old cooler out and the board out since this cooler requires a custom backplate for AM5 afaik.

 

...The earlier DDR5 8000 timings (incl. via Zen screen) are thoroughly tested, but I am guessing at everything else at this stage as I'm still putting this thing together properly. Also a quick note and AM5 backplates --- the dual mobos w-cooled build (prior 2x AM4s) both use Phanteks 360a blocks which work very well, and also use the stock AM4 backplate. But for some reason, the thread size (rather than pattern) was different for the Aorus Master 670E;  I ended up getting 6/32s from the hardware store when mounting the Phanteks 360a cooler on the new AM5 backplate - very carefully, of course - works like a charm now, though: 7950X3D has yet to get past 85 C even with 164 W.

 

EDIT-

 

@neurotix @kaliz ...had a few minutes to clean up 8100+ a bit. Not fully optimized yet (re. extra CPU speed needing an updated boost ceiling) but clearly, it is a viable option and passed basic RAM and CPU tests. Superpi and Aida RAM speed results within run-to-run variance of 8000 though. I like to get latency under 60 if possible (best so far 60.8)....may be with eclk ?

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by J7SC_Orion

[kaliz]

maybe you can scave off latecy by settings things like TSME diabled, GDM disabled, and Nitro training settings not on auto values, finetuning voltages and higher/lower fclk can help getting a few miliseconds of. tRFC to around 125ns i think with the M-dies?

[J7SC_Orion]

20 hours ago, kaliz said:

maybe you can scave off latecy by settings things like TSME diabled, GDM disabled, and Nitro training settings not on auto values, finetuning voltages and higher/lower fclk can help getting a few miliseconds of. tRFC to around 125ns i think with the M-dies?

 

 

Thanks kaliz    ...I did tighten some of the primary and secondary RAM values a bit more and then thoroughly tested them, per below. tRFC is about 40 clicks away before RAM tests start to act up but that delta is really nothing with DDR5, I will try some of the other suggestions, though. Overall, I'm very pleased with this RAM kit (just under US$200 for DDR5 7200 2x24/48 GB M-die) ...CL30 6000 to CL36 > 8100 gives me a huge range to play with. Kudos also to Gigabyte for the Aorus RAM topology and other setup; it seems very resilient. FYI in the screenie below, the VDD at 1.425 was left over from the 8100+ runs.

 

I also started exploring 'eclk' a bit on the mobo and am in the process of creating a table of eclk value vs. overunder clock boost setting in the bios - table is not quite finished yet but that will open up some more sandboxes to play in 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by J7SC_Orion

[neurotix]

So here's a question:

 

Does going from 6200MHz cas 30 to DDR-7000+ have any tangible performance improvement in gaming, or does it just help benchmarks?

[J7SC_Orion]

30 minutes ago, neurotix said:

So here's a question:

 

Does going from 6200MHz cas 30 to DDR-7000+ have any tangible performance improvement in gaming, or does it just help benchmarks?

 

It depends on the app, I think. According to Buildzoid, the cross-over between 1:1 and 1:2 is somewhere around 7600 MHz - which is why I run 8000+ MHz. 

[kaliz]

starting at 7600 , the 1:2 mode is about the same latency as any tight 1:1 setup as far as ive tested, so it would be great you can do 7600C34-44 or better

[J7SC_Orion]

FYI - yesterday, I accidentally booted into Win 11 Pro at s.th. like 6008 MHz CPU and DDR5 8220+- ...I wondered why the mouse and also the audio was acting up after signing in, and when I checked HWInfo, I realized what had happened...I had set the RAM back to 80X but forgot to lower the bclk I had played with just before. Surprisingly, it didn't actually crash but I managed to hit an orderly 'shut down/restart'.  Once the winter weather sets in, I might try to explore 'DDR5 8200' on purpose, though that likely will require a  voltage bump to VDD & Co

[mouacyk]

On 14/09/2023 at 17:59, J7SC_Orion said:

FYI - yesterday, I accidentally booted into Win 11 Pro at s.th. like 6008 MHz CPU and DDR5 8220+- ...I wondered why the mouse and also the audio was acting up after signing in, and when I checked HWInfo, I realized what had happened...I had set the RAM back to 80X but forgot to lower the bclk I had played with just before. Surprisingly, it didn't actually crash but I managed to hit an orderly 'shut down/restart'.  Once the winter weather sets in, I might try to explore 'DDR5 8200' on purpose, though that likely will require a  voltage bump to VDD & Co

For safety measure, you should run a chkdsk and sfc /scannow.  I've had  corruptions from things like that not show until a Windows updates goes awry and nothing can fix it besides a reset or install.

[J7SC_Orion]

5 hours ago, mouacyk said:

For safety measure, you should run a chkdsk and sfc /scannow.  I've had  corruptions from things like that not show until a Windows updates goes awry and nothing can fix it besides a reset or install.

 

Very good point, but I already did that both voluntarily and also via Win 11 Pro prompts during boot-up after pushing bus clocks too far. FYI, my avatar byline of 'invalid media' at another forum relates to exactly that, from back in the days when bus-clocking was still done by jumpers...I managed to lose some vital Excel tables for a work presentation the following day after my system would not boot up anymore after excessive bus oc-ing, with the bios splash screen stating 'invalid media' when it got to my C:\ boot drive 

 

That said, I did manage a few more SuperPi runs (first series of pics) with the DDR5. The second pic just shows the 'daily' setting, with more detail from 3DM SystemInfo

 

 

[neurotix]

Hey @J7SC_Orion

 

Can you post a link to your ram kit on Amazon please? The wife got a lot of stuff for my rig lately but in a month or two I'll ask her to get me your kit and I'll be able to join in the Zen 4 7000MHz+ RAM club.

[J7SC_Orion]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

Hey @J7SC_Orion

 

Can you post a link to your ram kit on Amazon please? The wife got a lot of stuff for my rig lately but in a month or two I'll ask her to get me your kit and I'll be able to join in the Zen 4 7000MHz+ RAM club.

 

...here you > go

 

...and the latest Zen timings I use for DDR5 8000