5000 Series Tweakers Out There?

[VoidTheWarranty]

I have a 5600X running stock right now chuggin away like a champ but I've been playing a lot of Spider-Man Remastered lately and I wouldn't mind decreasing the temps a bit while maintaining as much performance as possible. I don't expect much since I have a bronze chip. Any advice would be great. From what I can tell people with gold chips can go -20. Looking for a safe offset I can set for all cores. 

If I can only hit a -5 or so offset should I not even fiddle with the curve optimizer and just decrease my CPU Voltage with a manual setting instead of fussing with all this?

CPU: Voltage? Is your CPU voltage set to Auto? 
Curve Optimizer: -5 or -10 for Allcore? 
Max Boost Clock Override: ???? 
 

[Sir Beregond]

It takes time, but you're much better off adjust curve optimizer on a per core basis instead of a single all core offset. I'd leave voltage on auto or you can do a slight undervolt and then do curve optimizer.

 

For the boost clock override, it really depends on how aggressive of a core offset you do. You can push it to +200 MHz easily but you'll have less available headroom to do an aggressive negative offset in CO. You'll still be able to have one mind you, just not as much otherwise its less stable.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[UltraMega]

On every ryzen system I've tinkered with, there is an option in the BIOS to set the max temp. Turn PBO on and the set the max temp to whatever you're comfortable with. I set mine to 85c. If I am losing any performance, it's negligible. 

[pio]

I set PBO to enabled, +200, turn on DOCP, and a -0.100v offset on my 5800x.  Boosts to 5.1GHz single core or 4.75 all core, and runs cool and quiet.  I'd just enable PBO with a negative offset and go from there.  You can get a pretty good idea if its stable by running Cinebench R23.  If your score goes up, the negative voltage is fine.  If your score goes DOWN, use less of an undervolt.

Edited April 6, 2023 by pioneerisloud

[Sir Beregond]

14 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

I set PBO to enabled, +200, turn on DOCP, and a -0.100v offset on my 5800x.  Boosts to 5.1GHz single core or 4.75 all core, and runs cool and quiet.  I'd just enable PBO with a negative offset and go from there.  You can get a pretty good idea if its stable by running Cinebench R23.  If your score goes up, the negative voltage is fine.  If your score goes DOWN, use less of an undervolt.

Very nice all-core BTW!

 

Yeah this is definitely the easy way to do it. Really trying to do Curve Optimizer per core is extremely tedious.

[VoidTheWarranty]

17 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

I set PBO to enabled, +200, turn on DOCP, and a -0.100v offset on my 5800x.  Boosts to 5.1GHz single core or 4.75 all core, and runs cool and quiet.  I'd just enable PBO with a negative offset and go from there.  You can get a pretty good idea if its stable by running Cinebench R23.  If your score goes up, the negative voltage is fine.  If your score goes DOWN, use less of an undervolt.

Going through your settings I'll bench these this weekend. 
I have an XMP option in my BIOS so that is currently selected. Which I think DOCP is Gigabyte/ASUS.
PBO is set to on.
Processor set to all core.
I'll look for the area to put the -0.100v and see where I'm hitting.

Do you have:
Relaxed EDC throttling: Enabled? 
Spread Spectrum: Disabled?

Is applying a -.100v offset something I should prepare for having to refugulate my BIOS or is using an offsets easier on the system to load with if it's unstable? 


On a side note I upgraded my ram and left it at auto. In Aida64, Tomb Raider, CPU-Z, benchmarks HWINFO64 wasn't hitting 1.35 (default voltage) just 1.34X with the XMP Profile. Any issues with leaving it on auto or should I just set it to 1.35? 

Edited April 6, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[pio]

6 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Going through your settings I'll bench these this weekend. 
I have an XMP option in my BIOS so that is currently selected. Which I think DOCP is Gigabyte/ASUS.
PBO is set to on.
Processor set to all core.
I'll look for the area to put the -0.100v and see where I'm hitting.

Do you have:
Relaxed EDC throttling: Enabled? 
Spread Spectrum: Disabled?

Is applying a -.100v offset something I should prepare for having to refugulate my BIOS or is using an offsets easier on the system to load with if it's unstable? 


On a side note I upgraded my ram and left it at auto. In Aida64, Tomb Raider, CPU-Z, benchmarks HWINFO64 wasn't hitting 1.35 (default voltage) just 1.34X with the XMP Profile. Any issues with leaving it on auto or should I just set it to 1.35? 

Nope, I didn't mess with anything else.  PBO enabled, +200MHz, DOCP / XMP enabled, I adjusted RAM speeds (and timings later on), but otherwise that was it.  Oh and the undervolt too.  I think I also maxed out my board's power limits too for the CPU, I think I gave it a +140% power capability somewhere in the BIOS too.

Changing it to PBO enabled, +200, and XMP enabled 1:1 with the IF Clock, that's really about it for tweaking Ryzen.  The undervolt is going to allow it to boost higher because the boost algorithm works off temperatures.  Keep the temps lower, it boosts higher, so undervolt it for lower temps.  The tricky part comes in when you're not giving it enough voltage and it doesn't want to run stable anymore, that's the only thing that's similar to older overclocking techniques.  Having the RAM and IF Clock 1:1 is the most important part, and then tweaking your RAM tuning is the next important bit.

 

You can certainly push for a solid all core manual overclock.  They DO perform better that way.  At the end of the day though, daily using a rig, you don't really need the performance of an all core OC usually though, and disabling its downclocking abilities, I'd worry about long term usage.  Absolutely great to figure out though if you're into benchmarking / hwbot competitions.  With an ACTUAL manual all core overclock, I can get 4.70GHz.  But as I said earlier, with PBO I sit at 4.75 all core.  It's so close already using PBO, its almost not even worth it trying unless benching.

[Sir Beregond]

14 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

I think I also maxed out my board's power limits too for the CPU, I think I gave it a +140% power capability somewhere in the BIOS too.

Power adjustments if using PBO would be in the PBO menu of the BIOS. I never did quite figure it out, but it's the PPT, EDC, TDC settings.

[VoidTheWarranty]

I think my CPU-Z benchmark scores went down with 1.2.08 BIOS. When I compare todays scores with previous they've gone down. 1.2.0.7 voltages and settings set to auto I hit 626 single and 4632.5 auto just for reference. 

**So let me know if this sounds about right for you folks or if you've seen similar behaviors. So running stock without a .100v decrease my CPU-Z benchmarks are significantly better. However in gaming (Tomb Raider Benchmark) it looks like performance has increased. (same with temps and voltage). For the record these aren't taken from average runs but I did restart my computer after each benchmark. 

0) PBO AUTO  
CPU No offset 
CPU Boost clock override: Disabled
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score 622, Multi-Thread Score: 4657
Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 25962, Average FPS 166, GPU Bound 33%.  <--- Everything is higher why is this only 33%????
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 68C 1.386v

1) PBO: Disabled
CPU No offset 
CPU Boost clock override: Disabled
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score 622, Multi-Thread Score: 4657
Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 25803, Average FPS 165, GPU Bound 34%.
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 67C 1.352v

1) PBO: Enabled     
CPU No offset 
CPU Boost clock override: Disabled
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score 610, Multi-Thread Score: 4753
Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 25803, Average FPS 165, GPU Bound 34%.
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 67C 1.352v

2) PBO: Enabled (not auto)  
CPU Offset Voltage: -.1000V 
CPU Boost clock override: Disabled
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score   581, Multi-Thread Score: 4618
Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 25811, Average FPS 164, GPU Bound 37%.
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 60C 1.262v 

3) PBO: Enabled (not auto)  
CPU Offset Voltage: -.1000V 
CPU Boost clock override: 100 Mhz increase
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score  573, Multi-Thread Score: 4586
Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 25660, Average FPS 163, GPU Bound 32%.
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 59C  1.276v

4) PBO: Enabled (not auto)  
CPU Offset Voltage: -.1000V 
CPU Boost clock override: 200 Mhz increase
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score   582, Multi-Thread Score: 4551
Tomb Raider: Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 25753, Average FPS 164, GPU Bound 38%.
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 61.4C  1.264v 

I did also notice when I tested but did not include the settings where I had the .1000v offset but I left PBO as auto. My CPU-Z scores were higher but lower in Tomb-Raider. Anyone know why setting PBO to auto would have this effect?

Also, I'm not really sure how to read all the info on the Tomb Raider Benchmark if anyone can help me understand that I would appreciate it. Frames Rendered and Avg FPS higher the better I'd assume. The graphs vary but I assume the higher the GPU Bound percentage the better? 

I did notice this though. With an offset on and CPU Boost clock override both the 100Mhz and 200Mhz look like the top chart. Things the CPU Game and Render are much closer together the rest off the charts look more like the bottom.





Hopefully someone can make sense of all this for me. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[Sir Beregond]

What AGESA was your old BIOS and what are you on now?

[VoidTheWarranty]

6 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

What AGESA was your old BIOS and what are you on now?

1.2.0.7 went to 1.2.0.8. Today then ran these benchies. I didn't realize it was out but saw it had some security benefits. I had a feeling I ran these possibly with PBO set to auto before. So I ran more benchmarks see the top results # 0.

I'm not sure but I think I read PBO auto = disabled for some reason but I could be wrong. It seems like disabling PBO but keeping precision boost on the default boost to maxes stock settings offers the highest performance of the day. Granted also the most heat and voltage. But I don't understand why even though it had the best performance the GPU bound is lower 33% in Tomb Raider is less than the PBO on + -.1000 offset? Which was 37%?? Isn't higher better?  

Edited April 8, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[pio]

I think part of what you're seeing MIGHT be an instability.  You might very well possibly be not 100% stable at -0.100v.  On mine, I tried a variety of undervolts from -0.025v all the way down to -0.25v, and settled on -0.100v on mine because that's where performance and benchmarks peaked at consistently.  If you're unstable, then stock PBO, stock voltages WILL perform better even if the clocks are lower.

 

Getting good RAM and IF clocks is honestly a lot more important.  Tweaking PBO and voltages like this is honestly about the last thing I'd worry about with a Ryzen system.  I'd be more concentrating on getting DDR4-3600 to 3800 ish, depending on what your IF clock can pull off, honestly will lead to a much snappier system overall, and it helps in a lot of gaming titles too with 1% and 0.1% lows.

Edited April 8, 2023 by pioneerisloud

[Sir Beregond]

8 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

I think part of what you're seeing MIGHT be an instability.  You might very well possibly be not 100% stable at -0.100v.  On mine, I tried a variety of undervolts from -0.025v all the way down to -0.25v, and settled on -0.100v on mine because that's where performance and benchmarks peaked at consistently.  If you're unstable, then stock PBO, stock voltages WILL perform better even if the clocks are lower.

 

Getting good RAM and IF clocks is honestly a lot more important.  Tweaking PBO and voltages like this is honestly about the last thing I'd worry about with a Ryzen system.  I'd be more concentrating on getting DDR4-3600 to 3800 ish, depending on what your IF clock can pull off, honestly will lead to a much snappier system overall, and it helps in a lot of gaming titles too with 1% and 0.1% lows.

Yep and tightening the RAM timings helps a lot too.

[VoidTheWarranty]

14 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

I think part of what you're seeing MIGHT be an instability.  You might very well possibly be not 100% stable at -0.100v.  On mine, I tried a variety of undervolts from -0.025v all the way down to -0.25v, and settled on -0.100v on mine because that's where performance and benchmarks peaked at consistently.  If you're unstable, then stock PBO, stock voltages WILL perform better even if the clocks are lower.

 

Getting good RAM and IF clocks is honestly a lot more important.  Tweaking PBO and voltages like this is honestly about the last thing I'd worry about with a Ryzen system.  I'd be more concentrating on getting DDR4-3600 to 3800 ish, depending on what your IF clock can pull off, honestly will lead to a much snappier system overall, and it helps in a lot of gaming titles too with 1% and 0.1% lows.

What are your scores under volted vs not with pbo off? I'll try a lower undervolt. But overall I guess I can't complain about my temps really even at stock. Should I expect my scores to be close even with an offset? I expected some loss.  

Edited April 8, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[pio]

46 minutes ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

What are your scores under volted vs not with pbo off? I'll try a lower undervolt. But overall I guess I can't complain about my temps really even at stock. Should I expect my scores to be close even with an offset? I expected some loss.  

Only thing I've ever paid attention to was Cinebench because that was my stress tester of choice.  I scored about 13.2k at stock PBO with one run of Cinebench R23, and about 16.2k fully tuned with RAM, IF Clock, and PBO boosting (undervolt).

[VoidTheWarranty]

Well shiii..... I really thought from watching reviews the compromise was slightly less performance but substantially better heat/voltage. 

 

I'll try a .025 offset tonight and go from there. Higher or lower voltage. 

 

As for ram timings thaiphoon burner isn't working. Trying to see what this ram is made of. Anyone know an alternative?

Edited April 8, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[damric]

What is your cooling method?

[VoidTheWarranty]

2 hours ago, damric said:

What is your cooling method?

Wraith prism rgb that I'm using from a Ryzen 7. Not using the little 5600X's stock fan + MX-4. It's a good cooler, love the look of it personally, noise is my only gripe. 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[Sir Beregond]

To be fair, PBO only got me so far with Cinebench. It definitely works great for single core, but that multi-core score does a lot better with just a static all core OC. If you have a motherboard that can dynamically shift between both modes based on CPU load, then you can get the best of both worlds. If not, then I'd suggest just dialing in PBO like you have for gaming and daily and then do the all core stuff when you want to do multi-threaded benching.

 

That said, if going the static all core OC route, might want a better cooler depending on how much voltage you have to pump into it full time to do.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[UltraMega]

3 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Wraith prism rgb that I'm using from a Ryzen 7. Not using the little 5600X's stock fan + MX-4. It's a good cooler, love the look of it personally, noise is my only gripe. 

 

 

Surprisingly good litter cooler. The stock paste that comes on it is trash, and a lot of people used that and then complained about the cooler. With good thermal paste, it's a great heatsink. I've use it in two 3900X builds and a bunch of 3700X builds. 

[VoidTheWarranty]

This went from a saving power thread to a going down a rabbit hole. So Holy crap.... I got really bored of testing CPU Offset Voltages .075, .050, .025, .0125 which is the lowest I can go before it goes to auto, I tried auto as well.. Long story short I couldn't hit my stock scores. I added to the boost clocks and I kept falling short. I said screw it I'm going to try the PBO Curve Optimizer I haven't tried this yet.

So I tried -5 allcore offset under PBO curve optimizer and I was like interesting... I just hit my highest CPU-Z multicore score but still a little short on single core. So I tested -10 under PBO multi-thread score just hit an all time high. I was like this has to be a fluke cause why would this be so much better than doing the offset voltages I was trying before. Then nope! Tomb Raider Benchmark all time high. So I'll try again tomorrow to see if I can get my single core to hit my stock settings but everything in bold below is a new high. 
 

 

PBO: Enabled & Curve optimizer -10 Allcore 
CPU Offset Voltage: Disabled 
CPU Boost clock override: Disabled
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score  618, Multi-Thread Score: 4889
Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 26049, Average FPS 166, GPU Bound 39%.
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 68C  1.346 

Edited April 9, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[damric]

12 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Wraith prism rgb that I'm using from a Ryzen 7. Not using the little 5600X's stock fan + MX-4. It's a good cooler, love the look of it personally, noise is my only gripe. 

 

I have a few of these prism coolers. They are pretty good and they do look cool when you play around with the Cooler Master software. Make sure you pack those heat pipe gaps on the base with extra thermal compound. Also keep in mind that there is a switch between quiet and performance modes. It's better to use the performance mode and fine tune the fan curve in the BIOS.

 

Try ECO mode in the PBO settings. It may run much cooler without losing much performance at all.

[Sir Beregond]

9 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

This went from a saving power thread to a going down a rabbit hole. So Holy crap.... I got really bored of testing CPU Offset Voltages .075, .050, .025, .0125 which is the lowest I can go before it goes to auto, I tried auto as well.. Long story short I couldn't hit my stock scores. I added to the boost clocks and I kept falling short. I said screw it I'm going to try the PBO Curve Optimizer I haven't tried this yet.

So I tried -5 allcore offset under PBO curve optimizer and I was like interesting... I just hit my highest CPU-Z multicore score but still a little short on single core. So I tested -10 under PBO multi-thread score just hit an all time high. I was like this has to be a fluke cause why would this be so much better than doing the offset voltages I was trying before. Then nope! Tomb Raider Benchmark all time high. So I'll try again tomorrow to see if I can get my single core to hit my stock settings but everything in bold below is a new high. 
 

 

PBO: Enabled & Curve optimizer -10 Allcore 
CPU Offset Voltage: Disabled 
CPU Boost clock override: Disabled
CPU-Z: Single Thread Score  618, Multi-Thread Score: 4889
Tomb Raider: Frames Rendered 26049, Average FPS 166, GPU Bound 39%.
HWINFO64 Max temp and voltage: 68C  1.346 

Nice, I am guessing it is easier to do all core Curve Optimizer negative offsets on the 5600X then the 5900X which has the two CCD's to contend with and usually the first is better than the second. 5600X, you just have the one.

 

All to say you may even try -15 or even -20 now.

[Snakecharmed]

I have a 7900X but the best practices are largely unchanged from the 5000 series from what I've learned. Curve Optimizer with negative offsets is the easiest way to get a baseline, and then you can fine-tune individual cores if you want to get the most out of every core.

 

When I installed the 7900X, I set it to 105W Eco mode immediately. I got whatever I got in the CPU-Z benchmark and didn't think anything of it, even to the point of not remembering to compare it in that CPU-Z benchmark thread that we had here last year. Last week, I read a little about undervolting to drop the temperatures, then saw what people were doing with the 7000 series. I started with -15 in Curve Optimizer which checked out fine and then went to -20, which resulted in the best single and multithreaded CPU-Z score yet. The 7900X with the generational uplift despite four fewer cores is almost matching the 5950X multi scores in CPU-Z.

 

I haven't gone beyond -20 or tried to find the limits of each core yet, largely because I haven't had to, but I figure I'll get around to it as the weather and the ambient room temp gets warmer. I haven't even looked at CPU offset voltage or boost clock override and it doesn't look like there's any real reason to do so unless you've gotten everything there is to get out of Curve Optimizer.

[Another Crafter]

Definitely agree that curve optimizer + a good RAM OC is the best option if you want to keep equal or better performance. If you ever need a quick and dirty way that guarantees stability, just mess with the PBO limits, I've cranked down the TDC + EDC to keep my 5800x from cooking under F@H. Doing so will almost certainly lower performance, but depending on what limits you set the difference might be negligible for the temperature improvement.

I've found that TDC + EDC limits cause the CPU to underclock less aggressively than when its hits a PPT limit or its on ECO mode (which I believe also sets a PPT limit, but don't quote me on that), but I'd need to do a bunch of cinebench runs to see if/how much that actually affects performance more than the other two or not.