5000 Series Tweakers Out There?

[VoidTheWarranty]

What do you folks suggest for PPT, TDC, EDC? I've messed around with them quite a bit. Changing the scalar will get me some better benchmarks at x2 x3 but not sure I want to run with them. 

[ENTERPRISE]

When im home I will see if I can find my BIOS screenshots for my 5950X OC and upload them here as it should detail the PPT,EDC & TDC. 

 

 

[Sir Beregond]

I never really figured out manually adjusting those myself.

[Another Crafter]

10 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

What do you folks suggest for PPT, TDC, EDC?

Keep PPT at max, run cinebench then lower TDC + EDC until you're happy with the temps. I find that hitting EDC limits tend to keep the clocks the most consistent, while hitting PPT or TDC makes the clocks jump around by a few hundred mhz or so. This is in the context of F@H though, an AVX multicore load, so hitting TDC in a game might be less of a big deal since the clocks tend to jump around anyways.

I have a 5800x, so the equivalents on the 5600x might be a bit lower, but i find the lowest EDC limit that keeps the clocks running similar to stock speeds is around 100A. Personally I usually use 70-80A limits most of the time as I like to keep the CPU under 75C, but doing so also sacrifices about 100-200mhz on multicore loads.

I'll do some cinebench runs in a bit to see how much it impacts score.

[Another Crafter]

All scores are multicore Cinebench R23:

Stock - 14961 (83C Tdie)
PBO with max limits - 15015 (80C)

PPT max, TDC 120 + EDC 120 - 15264 (85C)
PPT max, TDC 110 + EDC 110 - 15264 (!!! 87C)
100 + 100 - 15184 (86C)
90 + 90 - 15202 (84C)
80 + 80 - 15070 (76C)

75 + 75 - 14971 (72C)
70 + 70 - 14690 (68C, EDC not allowed to go lower)

PPT 140, TDC + EDC max - 14922 (80C)
PPT 120, TDC + EDC max - 14829 (73C)
110 - 14482 (68C)
100 - 14014 (63C)

Looks like you can actually get higher performance than stock, though you can also make the temps higher oddly enough. I should probably do separate TDC testing, in all of the TDC + EDC tests it was mostly EDC that was hit. Same with single core tests but that would take forever so I might just not tbh

PPT limits are not as bad as I remembered but the margin for good performance is smaller than EDC.

[VoidTheWarranty]

51 minutes ago, Another Crafter said:

All scores are multicore Cinebench R23:

Stock - 14961 (83C Tdie)
PBO with max limits - 15015 (80C)

PPT max, TDC 120 + EDC 120 - 15264 (85C)
PPT max, TDC 110 + EDC 110 - 15264 (!!! 87C)
100 + 100 - 15184 (86C)
90 + 90 - 15202 (84C)
80 + 80 - 15070 (76C)

75 + 75 - 14971 (72C)
70 + 70 - 14690 (68C, EDC not allowed to go lower)

PPT 140, TDC + EDC max - 14922 (80C)
PPT 120, TDC + EDC max - 14829 (73C)
110 - 14482 (68C)
100 - 14014 (63C)

Looks like you can actually get higher performance than stock, though you can also make the temps higher oddly enough. I should probably do separate TDC testing, in all of the TDC + EDC tests it was mostly EDC that was hit. Same with single core tests but that would take forever so I might just not tbh

PPT limits are not as bad as I remembered but the margin for good performance is smaller than EDC.

I have so many screenshots of and notes it's been a weekend of a lot of benchmarks. What did you end up sticking with? I never played with the PBO limits until I mentioned it and it just became a slippery slope. 

[Another Crafter]

4 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

What did you end up sticking with?

Got TDC and EDC at 77 rn, 75-80A seems to be the sweet spot for my CPU. If I wasn't running F@H I'd probably keep it closer to 90.

[UltraMega]

Dang, one of these days I'm going to have to stop being lazy and really tweak my system. Nice job OP. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by UltraMega

[VoidTheWarranty]

12 hours ago, UltraMega said:

Dang, one of these days I'm going to have to stop being lazy and really tweak my system. Nice job OP. 

Honestly it's really not worth it I could be halfway through Spider Man or more instead. But once you start....

After hour 10 of benchmarks..

Edited April 11, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[VoidTheWarranty]

13 hours ago, Another Crafter said:

Got TDC and EDC at 77 rn, 75-80A seems to be the sweet spot for my CPU. If I wasn't running F@H I'd probably keep it closer to 90.

So I think you have it as 120 PPT, 77 TDC, 77 EDC. Last thing I was trying Sunday was raising TDC and EDC I had been playing around with higher maybe I'll return to reducing them again and see what happens. I'm pretty sure I've seen my 5600X only boost on it's own (stock PBO) to 4665 but usually anything I do it won't go past 4.6 I'm not sure what adds the little extra with stock settings.

The chip or whatever I might be doing doesn't seem to like me adding additional Mhz on it. I've been using Tombraider as a bench because it's a CPU sided game so I figure the more frames I'm rendering the better as it seems to reflect higher multi. I'm starting to think if I should set this thing to single core and see if I can boost to 4.8+ at a lower voltage. Might feel more rewarding.  
 

Edited April 11, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[Sir Beregond]

15 hours ago, UltraMega said:

Dang, one of these days I'm going to have to stop being lazy and really tweak my system. Nice job OP. 

Ryzen really benefits. While the X3D models are very much plug n play, the regular Ryzen chips benefit a ton from tweaking both PBO to get higher boosts, and big time by having fast RAM (frequency matching FCLK) with tight timings. For Zen 3, usually a good 3600 kit.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[Another Crafter]

2 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

So I think you have it as 120 PPT, 77 TDC, 77 EDC

I have PPT at 720 so it never gets hit, I personally either try to have EDC + TDC hit or only PPT, but not all three

Edited April 11, 2023 by Another Crafter
clearer wording

[VoidTheWarranty]

1 hour ago, Sir Beregond said:

Ryzen really benefits. While the X3D models are very much plug n play, the regular Ryzen chips benefit a ton from tweaking both PBO to get higher boosts, and big time by having fast RAM (frequency matching FCLK) with tight timings. For Zen 3, usually a good 3600 kit.

For anyone who stumbles onto this thread as someone who jumped on a great deal for dual rank HyperX kits of 3600's just don't...  For AM4 Just save your brain a lot of headaches and just get single rank 3600's hopefully on your QVL list because dual rank can be nothing more than a potential nightmare. 2 different processors 3000X and 5000X couldn't handle them. I read in the thread where I found out about the deal and other Ryzen owners were experiencing the same issues.

By the way is that ram tuner for Ryzen worth using anymore? Thaiphoon burner won't work for me so I have no idea what the ram I have is. Not sure I want to mess with it since the last time I tweaked my ram for 2 weeks was 2 weeks of my life I'll never get back for a minimal performance increase in gaming. Corsair Vengeance LPX 4x8GB. CMK16GX4M2D3600C18 I have these things set to auto and for benchmarking they never hit the stock 1.35V I think usually around 1.336 and I run 4 sticks. I had to run my last 2x16GB at 1.36 or 1.38 for 3600Mhz. So I'm kind of impressed I've never owned Corsair before just G.Skill or HyperX's. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[Sir Beregond]

2 hours ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

For anyone who stumbles onto this thread as someone who jumped on a great deal for dual rank HyperX kits of 3600's just don't...  For AM4 Just save your brain a lot of headaches and just get single rank 3600's hopefully on your QVL list because dual rank can be nothing more than a potential nightmare. 2 different processors 3000X and 5000X couldn't handle them. I read in the thread where I found out about the deal and other Ryzen owners were experiencing the same issues.

By the way is that ram tuner for Ryzen worth using anymore? Thaiphoon burner won't work for me so I have no idea what the ram I have is. Not sure I want to mess with it since the last time I tweaked my ram for 2 weeks was 2 weeks of my life I'll never get back for a minimal performance increase in gaming. Corsair Vengeance LPX 4x8GB. CMK16GX4M2D3600C18 I have these things set to auto and for benchmarking they never hit the stock 1.35V I think usually around 1.336 and I run 4 sticks. I had to run my last 2x16GB at 1.36 or 1.38 for 3600Mhz. So I'm kind of impressed I've never owned Corsair before just G.Skill or HyperX's. 

Yeah will say I have a set of single rank and a set of dual rank Samsung B-die 3600 DDR4. The single rank kit is definitely easier to work with tweaking wise. Nice that it can be both 1T and GDM off. That said, the DR kit can still tweak and I have 32GB with it vs 16GB with the SR kit. My DR kit also achieved a lower tRFC then my SR kit did. Lower tRFC definitely helps in those 1% lows gaming. Samsung B-die is nice for this as it scales with voltage. But you definitely pay more for B-die.

 

As for what Memory IC you have, might check here. Supposedly Corsair sticks have a code on the sticker.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/wiki/ram/ddr4#wiki_corsair

 

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[VoidTheWarranty]

Well I went down another slippery slope this weekend and did something I said I wouldn't do and that was to figure out each individual cores offset. The way I'm doing things is probably ass backwards and maybe there's software that can do this for you now?

So I have my CPU boost clock override to +50Mhz. So each core I bench and see if it can hit 4.7Ghz. I feel like if I'm hitting it during benching I'm at a comfortable offset/ see my scores going up. Honestly you don't want to know how many notebook pages I have used up. So right now I have core's 0, 1, 4, like nailed down with their max. 2,3, are frustrating and 5.... I figure later if I remove the +50Mhz boost clock override my cores will be able to boost high and use less power but be stable. 

This is where I need your advice experienced something odd
Core 5 just doesn't want to boost higher than a certain point most of the time. Just 4.5XX I've tried all sorts of offsets everything from -2, -3, +5, +3, +1, +12, -1, -2, -14, etc. All over the place and it's like this thing just doesn't boost any higher. So I'm like I got cores 0,1,4, locked down Just put in something stupid in for this f'ing thing core 5 since I have to get going in 15 minutes. So I try -16  for a new baseline and I figure work my way back from there cause why the f not. Well sure enough it still doesn't boost higher than 4.5XX BUT!!!!! holy crap did it help my CPU-Z score and Tomb Raider Score. Like considerably!

So what is going on? It's not to say these cores won't jump to 4.7Ghz at all it just kinda depends.. But why why did decreasing this one wonky core so much give me such a big boost? Are some cores just kinda mediocre no matter how much voltage you throw at them so reducing the offset at a much larger negative amount like you would with a better performing core make the most sense? That's what seems like has happened here. I sort of wonder when regular PBO is enabled without any tweaking how is it boosting all my cores so high 4.60/4.650 without any of this tweaking how is it getting these wonky cores especially core 5 to boost so well? Is there software that will let me see my core offsets adjusting from windows when running a benchmark? Regardless my scores are higher in the benchmarks than stock that's for sure. 

In the attached photos this is where's I'm at with CPU-Z. 
My current settings 
PPT 100
TDC 55
EDC 115
Scalar X1

CPU Boost Clock Override + 50Mhz

Curve Optimizer:
Core 0: -18*
Core 1: -16*
Core 2: -12 arg..
Core 3: -13 arg..
Core 4: -16*
Core 5: -16  *? Big boost after this negative offset yet my boost is still whatever.  
 

CPU-Z Benchmark for AMD Ryzen 5 5600X (12T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

VALID.X86.FR

---

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - April 2023

Multi threads

Edited April 17, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[damric]

Try a sprinkle of base clock, like 103-104

[VoidTheWarranty]

2 minutes ago, damric said:

Try a sprinkle of base clock, like 103-104

Where now?

[damric]

1 hour ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Where now?

Your mileage will vary on the benefits of raising base clock a few percent, so you'll have to just test it and see. I noticed on the hexacore ryzens that it helped as they were easier to stay in the power envelope. You should find it on the advanced OC menu somewhere. It would normally be auto or 100MHz. It may be near a setting called spread spectrum.

 

The advantage of using a base clock increase is of course to force boost clocks (and all power state clocks) a little higher. It affects all clocks though, so back off your memory and fabric multipliers accordingly for stability. On AM4 it also affects PCI bus, so generally you have to stay at 104 or below or drop back a gen for stability.

 

It's something worth experimenting with to wring our the last few MHz.

 

Example: 104 bclk +200MHz PBO on Ryzen 5 5500:

 

https://valid.x86.fr/wtl521

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by damric

[VoidTheWarranty]

Oh, I think I know what you are saying. Under FCH Base clock Mhz? I couldn't do PBO +200 Mhz before hand. I would try it + PBO to just see what happens though. Pretty sure I have FCH Base clock set to auto right now is 100 stock?

 "It affects all clocks though, so back off your memory and fabric multipliers"

I just pretty sure I just have it set to 1800/1800 unless you are not referring to UCLK/MEMCLK which is stock for my memory. Is 1800 too high?

Edited April 17, 2023 by VoidTheWarranty

[damric]

1 hour ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

Oh, I think I know what you are saying. Under FCH Base clock Mhz? I couldn't do PBO +200 Mhz before hand. I would try it + PBO to just see what happens though. Pretty sure I have FCH Base clock set to auto right now is 100 stock?

 "It affects all clocks though, so back off your memory and fabric multipliers"

I just pretty sure I just have it set to 1800/1800 unless you are not referring to UCLK/MEMCLK which is stock for my memory. Is 1800 too high?

Yeah not every processor will be able to do PBO +200 or any at all if there isn't headroom, so no worries if that doesn't work. Some will have trouble with even 101-102 base clock.

 

Yeah if it's 100 that's the one you want. Keep in mind it will throw all of your voltages on your notepad out the window as it shifts everything. I had a notebook full too lol.

[Sir Beregond]

Core Cycler for figuring out each individual core per curve optimizer I have heard. I've yet to try the tool though.

 

I don't know, I've heard of so many having bad effects from OCing baseclock, but it seems hit or miss. Might turn out ok.

[VoidTheWarranty]

11 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

Core Cycler for figuring out each individual core per curve optimizer I have heard. I've yet to try the tool though.

 

I don't know, I've heard of so many having bad effects from OCing baseclock, but it seems hit or miss. Might turn out ok.

I'm still stuck on why in the world decreasing a low performing core's offset increased performance so much instead of making this thing unstable. I think I want to figure out the offsets before I get ballsy enough to try messing with my baseclock.   

[Sir Beregond]

1 hour ago, VoidTheWarranty said:

I'm still stuck on why in the world decreasing a low performing core's offset increased performance so much instead of making this thing unstable. I think I want to figure out the offsets before I get ballsy enough to try messing with my baseclock.   

I found this guy's charts in the first part of the video pretty good for understanding this.

 

 

[VoidTheWarranty]

21 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

I found this guy's charts in the first part of the video pretty good for understanding this.

 

 

Thanks I'll check it out. Definitely boggling my mind here. 

[neurotix]

I haven't read the whole topic, but personally I had no problems just setting PBO to Enabled, PBO_Fmax Enhancer (Asus exclusive) to Enabled, and +200. However, I had a Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360mm on my 5900x before I upgraded.

 

Anyone else telling you memory is important is correct, I remember seeing charts comparing the 3900x to the 9900k in 2019, in about 20 games, with the Ryzen memory at different clocks. When it had 3800/1900MHz memory and Ifclk, the average performance increase across like 20 games over the 9900k was about 25%. So you really need to push your IFclk as high as it can go and memory as well.

 

https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Flare-288-Pin-Memory-F4-3200C14D-16GFX/dp/B06XFT7DF9/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=g.skill+flare+x+3200+cas+14&qid=1681936762&sr=8-3

 

If you have the money and are willing to try, that memory is guaranteed B-Die single rank and what I used with my 3900x at 3800/1900. Use Thaiphoon Burner and Ryzen DRAM Calculator to figure out timings.

 

That memory is clocked at 3200 but I was able to clock mine to 4266 out of ratio which is 15 dividers higher than what it's rated at.

 

I cannot stress enough how important high ram speed in 1:1 ratio at good timings is for Zen 3.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by neurotix