Open Planning Discussion for 2024 EXTREMEHW Annual 2024 Folding Event

[ENTERPRISE]

55 minutes ago, damric said:

This was discussed last time (in the planning committee) and @ENTERPRISE explained the reasons we won't do that.

 

But...what if we only drew prizes for gold/silver/bronze membership? Even if they only did the membership for 1 month it would generate about the same revenue as charging $10 per ticket and people might like that better since it has added perks. Plus obviously some people would keep paying the subscription if they liked it.

 

What you think @Avacado

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, neurotix said:

Oh okay. Good to know it was already discussed and is not an option, but I still think it should be longer than just a month. Maybe 3 or 6 months. If Enterprise wouldn't agree to it I understand, but I'll reiterate that there's no cost to the site, shipping of a physical item, tariffs or import duties, money spent out of staff's pockets on merch from our store and so on. So it really should be considered more closely.

 

There are three things we have to consider here as to why this is not going to work.

 

1.Psychology 

2.Making enough capital to cover shipping/duty expenses.

3.Legitimate transparency

 

Firstly, Psychology. People are generally put off by "Premium Subscriptions", those who are wanting to join the site on a hit and run basis (which is a surprising amount whenever prizes are up for grabs) are more likely to put in a one off $10 over the irrational fear of possibly being hooked into an unwanted subscription. Subscriptions are mostly taken after a user has spent a good amount of time integrating into the community, not those who first join. Hit and run users are IMHO unlikely to take up a subscription to a site they ultimately have no loyalty to.

 

Secondly, If we were to limit prizes to users who were Premium Subscribers, ultimately you are limiting the ability to create a decent pool of money to cover expenses. Consider for a moment that you will not make any money on those users who are existing subscribers. They essentially would get "Free" entry and nothing made for the pot. 

 

Lastly and most importantly, if we were to "tie" people into a subscription, this would likely be viewed poorly by our sponsors. It would be seen as taking advantage. Using vendors stock to essentially market our product, namely a Premium Subscription. If I were giving away a money value or product to a company, only to find out they were also using my good will to make a buck, I would be pissed. 

 

They would likely be far more understanding about a one off monetary entry fee ($10) to cover logistics, over us making an unspecified amount through tie in subscriptions.

 

I do understand the thought process and on the surface seems like a good idea in theory, but I have been on this rodeo before and drawing off prior experience tells me it is a non starter doing it this way.

 

 

[neurotix]

Wasn't thinking about tying anyone into a recurring subscription, if that's the way it currently works.

 

 

I am not really understanding what you just posted fully, but if it wouldn't work and would be viewed poorly by our sponsors, then I understand halfway.

 

I thought I had a good idea, but unfortunately not. And it was thought of previously so I'm disappointed I didn't invent the wheel

 

Has anyone suggested having prizes from our store maybe paid for by damric or myself alongside the sponsors prizes, or would that create the same negative situation with the sponsors?

[ENTERPRISE]

12 minutes ago, neurotix said:

Wasn't thinking about tying anyone into a recurring subscription, if that's the way it currently works.

 

 

I am not really understanding what you just posted fully, but if it wouldn't work and would be viewed poorly by our sponsors, then I understand halfway.

 

I thought I had a good idea, but unfortunately not. And it was thought of previously so I'm disappointed I didn't invent the wheel

 

Has anyone suggested having prizes from our store maybe paid for by damric or myself alongside the sponsors prizes, or would that create the same negative situation with the sponsors?

Technically speaking, our subscriptions can be cancelled at any time, we do not have minimum term contract haha, but people do get funny about these thing and still see it as a commitment they do not wish to make.

[neurotix]

Understood.

[Avacado]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

Has anyone suggested having prizes from our store maybe paid for by damric or myself alongside the sponsors prizes, or would that create the same negative situation with the sponsors?

I'm not opposed to this, but I would have to bring it up with the organizing staff first. If they did decide to allow that, it would be something that we would want to have in hand before announcing it as a prize. Last thing we would want is to try and coordinate a prize donated by a member after the compo ended. But I personally thank you for considering it.

[damric]

3 hours ago, neurotix said:

 

 

Has anyone suggested having prizes from our store maybe paid for by damric or myself alongside the sponsors prizes, or would that create the same negative situation with the sponsors?

We already do that with the smaller monthly foldathons. I guess if sponsors don't pan out like last time then we could consider that.

[Broseph]

If I remember correctly in the 2023 96-hour event, at least one of the sponsors (EVGA) shipped prizes out directly to the winners, absorbing the shipping cost and logistics of EHW Staff in shipping prizes.  Is it too much of an ask for potential sponsors to do that?  Or if not, I guess I'd rather have a big box of prizes bulk shipped to EHW than to not have a sponsor, if push comes to shove.  Just would be ideal if the vendor did the shipping.

Re: Psychology, I get that too.  I learned about this forum via the F@H Discord community and joined, and it seems like a friendly community with non-existent douches.  There's a few other hardware communities that... feel like teenage fighting and egos (plus the spelling and grammar errors turn me off).  Point is:  EHW does seem like a potential "home forum" for me, as I'm not currently active anywhere on the Internet.  (Also not currently splurging on new desktop builds until the income/life situation gets normalized again).  I do have 2024 plans for a 24U server rack, and I've been on a new pfSense build for 6 months.  Soon will build out multiple XCP-ng servers.  [i]Eventually[/i] (once I can afford the hardware and power bill), I'd like to go nuts on a 4U GPU folding farm beast, so EHW seems like a good community where I'd be accepted (and a place to share homelab/server porn).

I'm rambling.  If push comes to shove as a newbie here, I can do $10, but any more at this time is a bit much for my life situation.  But also only if there's no legal issues with paying for prizes or calling it a raffle, etc.

Instead of a $10 for entry, could it be a $10 if the winner wants to claim their prize?  I'm trying to think of what's fair vs. what would get the most participation and fun factor to attract new people to the EHW community.  Asking a complete outsider to donate perhaps leaves a poor first impression to EHW, but I *do* understand the significant personal expense in shipping out prizes if a sponsor bulk ships a box of prizes.  What's the right balance?

I think 96 hours (4 days) or 120 hours (5 days) are a good sweet spot for annual contest.

Agree with earlier in the year (e.g. February) over spring.  I'm in the Southeast USA currently, and it gets to summer temps pretty fast + summer electricity rates.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Broseph

[neurotix]

14 minutes ago, Broseph said:

Instead of a $10 for entry, could it be a $10 if the winner wants to claim their prize?  I'm trying to think of what's fair vs. what would get the most participation and fun factor to attract new people to the EHW community.  Asking a complete outsider to donate perhaps leaves a poor first impression to EHW, but I *do* understand the significant personal expense in shipping out prizes if a sponsor bulk ships a box of prizes.  What's the right balance?

 

 

I think the $10 if the winner wants to claim their prize is a good idea, personally. I'm sure it'll be disagreed with, though.

[Avacado]

40 minutes ago, Broseph said:

If I remember correctly in the 2023 96-hour event, at least one of the sponsors (EVGA) shipped prizes out directly to the winners, absorbing the shipping cost and logistics of EHW Staff in shipping prizes.  Is it too much of an ask for potential sponsors to do that?  Or if not, I guess I'd rather have a big box of prizes bulk shipped to EHW than to not have a sponsor, if push comes to shove.  Just would be ideal if the vendor did the shipping.

Re: Psychology, I get that too.  I learned about this forum via the F@H Discord community and joined, and it seems like a friendly community with non-existent douches.  There's a few other hardware communities that... feel like teenage fighting and egos (plus the spelling and grammar errors turn me off).  Point is:  EHW does seem like a potential "home forum" for me, as I'm not currently active anywhere on the Internet.  (Also not currently splurging on new desktop builds until the income/life situation gets normalized again).  I do have 2024 plans for a 24U server rack, and I've been on a new pfSense build for 6 months.  Soon will build out multiple XCP-ng servers.  [i]Eventually[/i] (once I can afford the hardware and power bill), I'd like to go nuts on a 4U GPU folding farm beast, so EHW seems like a good community where I'd be accepted (and a place to share homelab/server porn).

I'm rambling.  If push comes to shove as a newbie here, I can do $10, but any more at this time is a bit much for my life situation.  But also only if there's no legal issues with paying for prizes or calling it a raffle, etc.

Instead of a $10 for entry, could it be a $10 if the winner wants to claim their prize?  I'm trying to think of what's fair vs. what would get the most participation and fun factor to attract new people to the EHW community.  Asking a complete outsider to donate perhaps leaves a poor first impression to EHW, but I *do* understand the significant personal expense in shipping out prizes if a sponsor bulk ships a box of prizes.  What's the right balance?

I think 96 hours (4 days) or 120 hours (5 days) are a good sweet spot for annual contest.

Agree with earlier in the year (e.g. February) over spring.  I'm in the Southeast USA currently, and it gets to summer temps pretty fast + summer electricity rates.

Valid points. To me, paying an entry fee or essentially buying a raffle ticket instead of specifically paying money to win said prize seems better. Ultimately what I don't want is our vendors thinking we are profiting off of their "free" merchandise. I honestly can't think of a way to collect funds from participants and not make it seem that way. 

 

Most of of vendors did in fact ship directly  to the winners and that solved this issue, however some did not. I was not told that Cooler Master was going to do what they did (Shipping all the prizes to me). I will make it a point of clarity when asking next month. 

 

We also did not anticipate the customs duties either. Being American, it's not something that @damricor I have ever experienced before, so we had no idea. 

 

I still do not see a clear way to do this without anyone (EHW included) paying out of pocket given how this past one went with prize distribution. I will have a clearer picture next moth as I begin to petition vendors for products as to their ability to ship directly and avoid out of pocket expenses for the site. 

[ENTERPRISE]

I really like the idea of users paying $10 if they choose to claim a prize, rather than paying $10 just for the chance to. 

 

That is a great idea!

[neurotix]

11 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

I really like the idea of users paying $10 if they choose to claim a prize, rather than paying $10 just for the chance to. 

 

That is a great idea!

Agreed.

[Monsterkater]

On 04/10/2023 at 22:43, ENTERPRISE said:

Firstly, Psychology. People are generally put off by "Premium Subscriptions", those who are wanting to join the site on a hit and run basis (which is a surprising amount whenever prizes are up for grabs) are more likely to put in a one off $10 over the irrational fear of possibly being hooked into an unwanted subscription. Subscriptions are mostly taken after a user has spent a good amount of time integrating into the community, not those who first join. Hit and run users are IMHO unlikely to take up a subscription to a site they ultimately have no loyalty to.

I can absolutely attest to that, there's a countless number of times where I personally didn't sign up for smth because it required a subscription.

For me at least it isn't even an irrational fear tbh, not least thanks to ADHD I'm missing cancellation deadlines fairly regularly. Thrice in my life did I miss the cancellation deadline for my mobile contract, causing it to prolong for at least another year (two years before it was made illegal to automatically prolong contracts for longer than a year). Now we even have legislature capping automatic prolongings to one month, which is an absolute godsend for me personally. I especially refrain from "free" trial periods where you're required to provide payment info beforehand, because I just can't rely on myself to cancel it in time, resulting in me paying for stuff I didn't have any intention paying for. Burnt child dreads the fire, y'know?

 

On 08/10/2023 at 09:35, ENTERPRISE said:

I really like the idea of users paying $10 if they choose to claim a prize, rather than paying $10 just for the chance to. 

 

That is a great idea!

Yup, that's a definite agree from me as well!