[Official] Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 Information & Discussion Thread

[J7SC_Orion]

3 hours ago, UltraMega said:

Based on what I've seen I think this game basically has a cap on FPS, I don't think I've seen any benchmarks above 50fps in 4k max settings. I dont think 2x3090's would make a difference. 

 

...with 2080 Tis in SLI-CFR, I've seen between 70 fps and 80 fps quite a few times, but it depends on the scene detail and even if the texture maps are in cache (see my comment below). All that said, I'm really just shooting for as close to 60 fps as possible, given that the monitors at 4K are 60 Hz though oc'ed can reach 72 Hz.

 

...the 3090 system is a separate 4K build in another room, so it is not meant to replace the 2080 Ti CFR setup...and both systems are used for work and play, just different focus and apps (the ones requiring 16 GB of VRAM or more are now linked to the 3090, what with its 24 GB VRAM). In FS2020, the bigger, faster VRAM buffer might come in handy in certain circumstances, but very rarely, IMO  

  

 

  

1 hour ago, Laithan said:

I understand that this game will stream maps while you are playing. It seems that a lot of ISPs are imposing data caps on plans. Does playing this game for a significant time actually consume a lot of data? When you crank up the detail to max, are you really downloading at 6.25MB/s constantly?

 

SPECIFICATION	MINIMUM	RECOMMENDED	IDEAL
Internet requirement	5 Mbps	20 Mbps	50 Mbps

 

 

Good point...fortunately, I'm on a fast, no-data-cap connection anyway. Still, I have established a 200 GB local cache (copied over now, so both systems have it)...that in turn reduces the need to constantly pull the maps from the network (as long as the maps are in the cache in the first place via prior flights). A big cache also tends to increase fps if you fly over 'familiar' territory.

 

I'll make a point to measure the Mbps on a new non-cached area flight with HWInfo in the near future to confirm...but I recall seeing 73 Mbps in an earlier HWInfo monitoring of FS2020...

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by J7SC_Orion

[UltraMega]

1 hour ago, Laithan said:

I understand that this game will stream maps while you are playing. It seems that a lot of ISPs are imposing data caps on plans. Does playing this game for a significant time actually consume a lot of data? When you crank up the detail to max, are you really downloading at 6.25MB/s constantly?

 

SPECIFICATION	MINIMUM	RECOMMENDED	IDEAL
Internet requirement	5 Mbps	20 Mbps	50 Mbps

Maybe when you fly over NY city or something like that but in general over flat terrain I highly doubt it. It might download at a higher rate for a minute or so when you first load into an area but given how slow the planes move compared to how fast the map loads, I don't think the bandwidth requirement is all that high. 

[ENTERPRISE]

On 2/10/2021 at 1:17 AM, J7SC_Orion said:

...picked up an Asus Strix 3090 OC last week (chance encounter at a great price)...just finished the base benchmarking and also loading of FS2020, including my precious 200GB rolling cache, in a fresh build for a secondary 4K station.

 

Hopefully soon, I find a bit of time to pit 2x 2080 TIs in SLI-CFR against one Strix 3090 OC...early, simple tests suggest that it won't be a one-sided affair...

 

Now we just need to get @ENTERPRISE to finish his new 3090 build and come and play FS2020 and add some high-speed, low altitude fly-bys...then he can go to 'relax' at CP2077 Night city...steal a car, get shot at, hang out in grimy bars and swanky Arasaka HQs...so relaxing, especially with RTX 'Psycho' level...

    

 

 

I have only just seen this after a good catch-up with this thread. As others have said, I must congratulate you on this thread

 

So yeah I will download both MSFS2020 and Cyberpunk finally lol and give these a good play over, still finding it hard to find time at the moment with site stuff but hoping to have projects finished soon and I can jump on these.

Also reviewing the TeamGroup Xtreem ARGB 4000Mhz 64Gb kit, interested to see if there is any improvement. What I can say is so far this kit is stable at 4000Mhz across 4 Dimms...not bad.

[Sir Beregond]

So, going to pick this up soon. What do you recommend for controls. Can I get away with a joystick or should I look at something else?

[J7SC_Orion]

6 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

 

I have only just seen this after a good catch-up with this thread. As others have said, I must congratulate you on this thread

 

So yeah I will download both MSFS2020 and Cyberpunk finally lol and give these a good play over, still finding it hard to find time at the moment with site stuff but hoping to have projects finished soon and I can jump on these.

 

Also reviewing the TeamGroup Xtreem ARGB 4000Mhz 64Gb kit, interested to see if there is any improvement. What I can say is so far this kit is stable at 4000Mhz across 4 Dimms...not bad.

 

..when you're ready...these monsters (aka FS2020 and Cyberpunk 2077) are not going away anytime soon...feel free to post setup questions here if you don't already know the answers anyway, Your 5950X w/ 64GB should come in very handy, on top of the 3090 EKWB ! 

   

1 hour ago, Sir Beregond said:

So, going to pick this up soon. What do you recommend for controls. Can I get away with a joystick or should I look at something else?

 

No question, the best deal and my preferred use for FS2020 is the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick...it's Win 10 ready (just plug it in) and off you go. Retails for around US$ 35 - US$ 45 <> if you can find one...like so many other computer parts' actual availability, these days are crazy. I have had two of the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joysticks for years - one wireless and one via USB (I prefer the latter).

 

FYI, there are some much more expensive Flight-yokes out there - some with pedals - almost like a real plane control setup. If you really get into FS2020 big time (caution: can be addictive !), that would be s.th. to consider as well for down the line. The Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick however has a much broader use case, I also use it for car racing and other apps.

 

 

[Sir Beregond]

Perfect thanks...I think I actually have one of those sitting in a closet. Didn't really work with FSX and is probably 5(ish) years old or so.

[Laithan]

Disclaimer I'm no expert as I have never played a Flight Sim seriously.. but the discussion about the controllers made me curious. I was shocked to see how many choices there really are out there and some of them look fantastic. The Extreme 3D Pro was also highly recommended from what I could see. I figured I would leave these links here because they look pretty fun and if someone was looking to buy a new controller this could be a good place to start.

 

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/space/extreme-3d-pro-joystick.963290-0403.html

 

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/t16000m-fcs-hotas

 

http://www.thrustmaster.com/products/hotas-warthog/

 

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/space/x52-space-flight-simulator-controller.945-000025.html

 

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/flight/flight-simulator-yoke-system.945-000023.html

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Laithan
typo

[J7SC_Orion]

@Laithan ...further to your query above re. bandwidth and related, I just did a fresh 'max' run to log server download speed and amount. I strongly stress that this was max max max everything...4K Ultra/everything on full...new (non-cached) busy landscape via Osaka and surrounds, flying a jet at over 640 knots as low as 350 feet (probably going to get a ticket for that ...)  and as high as 5,000 feet, thus maximizing the requested downloads. Regular 4K play will obviously less in terms of overall downloads from the Microsoft Azure server network.

 

I ran this test for exactly 5 minutes, and had reset HWInfo to '0' before the start...nothing else was running:

 

 

[Laithan]

20 minutes ago, J7SC_Orion said:

@Laithan ...further to your query above re. bandwidth and related, I just did a fresh 'max' run to log server download speed and amount. I strongly stress that this was max max max everything...4K Ultra/everything on full...new (non-cached) busy landscape via Osaka and surrounds, flying a jet at over 640 knots as low as 350 feet (probably going to get a ticket for that ...)  and as high as 5,000 feet, thus maximizing the requested downloads. Regular 4K play will obviously less in terms of overall downloads from the Microsoft Azure server network.

 

I ran this test for exactly 5 minutes, and had reset HWInfo to '0' before the start...nothing else was running:

 

 

Nice! Yes ticket is in the mail 

 

So that works out to roughly 3GB per hour, which is considerable but not super bad. And you won't always be playing unached either, but theoretically it could add up quick. If you figure 3GB per hour, 4 hours a day, playing 3 days every week for a month it could rack up around 144GB.

[J7SC_Orion]

1 hour ago, Laithan said:

Nice! Yes ticket is in the mail 

 

So that works out to roughly 3GB per hour, which is considerable but not super bad. And you won't always be playing unached either, but theoretically it could add up quick. If you figure 3GB per hour, 4 hours a day, playing 3 days every week for a month it could rack up around 144GB.

  

Yeah - this was absolute worst-case scenario, the Outer Limits, so to speak...'regular' FS2020 activity should be considerably less  

[J7SC_Orion]

...it's a long weekend here...lounging in front of a 55 inch TV with a big cup of java and pushing the 3090 a bit in FS2020. Enjoy the real-weather NY scenery:

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laithan]

That is (practically.. or is it ACTUALLY) Photo-realistic... wow.. 

[J7SC_Orion]

On 2/17/2021 at 3:19 PM, Laithan said:

That is (practically.. or is it ACTUALLY) Photo-realistic... wow.. 

  

...in the larger metro areas, FS2020 uses satellite data, modelling and photogrammetry 'skin'... 

 

a re-post of a shot in Vancouver (extremely accurate, we live in that part of town). Then some new pics from Moscow in bright sunshine (real weather) from yesterday

  

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by J7SC_Orion

[Andrew]

Last updated fixed the UK and Ireland. Buckingham Palace is no longer a generic block of offices.

[J7SC_Orion]

...more FlightSim 2020 photogrammetry ...had lunch at the building with the green cooper roof !

 

...2nd pic, dusk with heavy weather moving in yesterday...

 

...3pic a mix of the two pics, but taken earlier...

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by J7SC_Orion

[Andrew]

The sun sets very quickly when you're going east at 515kts.

[J7SC_Orion]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

The sun sets very quickly when you're going east at 515kts.

 

...very nice !

 

Also, you could get a very fast jet travel high-up and West all the time...overtake yourself from the day before 

[J7SC_Orion]

...starting to get into a more thorough comparison between two work-play 4K machines which both have FS2020 onboard. We finally have been switching all our productivity and work-from-home machines to 4K, so I am in the process of building up the 2nd, newer system...fully functional and very quick now already, but it's going to get the same extensive dual custom w-loops treatment as the first setup...both have their work functions and will coexist (peacefully, I hope  )

 

The 1st system (used for much for this thread so far) has an AMD TR 2950X w/ two w-cooled 2080 Tis set to SLI-CFR, along with 32GB of Samsung-B set to 14-14-14 // 3466 MHz and an all-core 'oc' of 4300 MHz

 

The 2nd system has an AMD 3950X w/ a 3090 Strix OC (GPU air-cooled for now) with an identical kit of 32GB Samsung-B...it's currently completely 'stock' re. clocks and auto PBO as I am waiting for custom w-cooling parts for both the CPU and GPU. By first boot, the machine showed it was capable - at stock voltages -  of an Infin clock of 1900 MHz and (1:1) RAM set to 3800 MHz, with 16-15-15 timings.

 

So far, both machines have been fairly competitive...the 3950X is clearly faster than the 2950X, but they 'compete in the same class' rather than it being lopsided. The TR 2950X memory subsystem does enjoy big bandwidth, what with quad-channel memory, vs dual channel (though with quad sticks) for he 3950X.  NUMA mode is used below for the 2950X as that is the setting I use for FS2020, otherwise the latency would be higher...the 3950X is in default (UMA) mode, and no slouch either in the memory department:

  

 

No hard comparative numbers yet for FS2020as I am doing a through comparison between the two using the equivalent oc settings for the GPUs...the 3090 w/ its 24 GB of DDR6X VRAM clearly has an advantage though in that department, and when unleashed (like below of a Superposition 8K) it can really pile it on...

 

 

 

....that said, the 2x 2080 Ti w-cooled are very quick in their own right - they can't match the 3090 Strix OC in sheer speed, but then again, there are two of them   ...in Superposition 8K Optimized, the single 3090 just did a score of 8638, but my best result for 2x 2080 Ti for 8K Optimized is 11998...so it's not a wholly one-sided affair in FS2020 either... 

 

Ironically, the 3090, with peak Watts at over 503 W, is actually more efficient than the 760 W combined total observed peak of 759 W...

 

But because the 3090 is still air-cooled unlike the 2x w-cooled 2080 Tis, I run both of them at a more conservative oc for now, until the 3090 gets its 'water jacket' custom loop as well. And because of their 'hybrid' productivity functions, all GPUs retain their stock bios and are not hard-modded.

 

Finally - and very importantly NO MATTER WHAT GPU AND/OR RESOLUTION you run, both systems have access to a synchronized 200 GB rolling cache...the best thing one can do for FS2020 performance is to build up a big rolling cache, as discussed in earlier posts...

 

Stay tuned for updates on the relative performance differences at 4K / Ultra, but for now, two screenshot teasers of the same general area....enjoy

 

2080 Ti SLI-CFR:

 

 

  
3090:

 
    

 

 

[UltraMega]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

...starting to get into a more thorough comparison between two work-play 4K machines which both have FS2020 onboard. We finally have been switching all our productivity and work-from-home machines to 4K, so I am in the process of building up the 2nd, newer system...fully functional and very quick now already, but it's going to get the same extensive dual custom w-loops treatment as the first setup...both have their work functions and will coexist (peacefully, I hope  )

 

The 1st system (used for much for this thread so far) has an AMD TR 2950X w/ two w-cooled 2080 Tis set to SLI-CFR, along with 32GB of Samsung-B set to 14-14-14 // 3466 MHz and an all-core 'oc' of 4300 MHz

 

The 2nd system has an AMD 3950X w/ a 3090 Strix OC (GPU air-cooled for now) with an identical kit of 32GB Samsung-B...it's currently completely 'stock' re. clocks and auto PBO as I am waiting for custom w-cooling parts for both the CPU and GPU. By first boot, the machine showed it was capable - at stock voltages -  of an Infin clock of 1900 MHz and (1:1) RAM set to 3800 MHz, with 16-15-15 timings.

 

So far, both machines have been fairly competitive...the 3950X is clearly faster than the 2950X, but they 'compete in the same class' rather than it being lopsided. The TR 2950X memory subsystem does enjoy big bandwidth, what with quad-channel memory, vs dual channel (though with quad sticks) for he 3950X.  NUMA mode is used below for the 2950X as that is the setting I use for FS2020, otherwise the latency would be higher...the 3950X is in default (UMA) mode, and no slouch either in the memory department:

  

 

No hard comparative numbers yet for FS2020as I am doing a through comparison between the two using the equivalent oc settings for the GPUs...the 3090 w/ its 24 GB of DDR6X VRAM clearly has an advantage though in that department, and when unleashed (like below of a Superposition 8K) it can really pile it on...

 

 

 

....that said, the 2x 2080 Ti w-cooled are very quick in their own right - they can't match the 3090 Strix OC in sheer speed, but then again, there are two of them   ...in Superposition 8K Optimized, the single 3090 just did a score of 8638, but my best result for 2x 2080 Ti for 8K Optimized is 11998...so it's not a wholly one-sided affair in FS2020 either... 

 

Ironically, the 3090, with peak Watts at over 503 W, is actually more efficient than the 760 W combined total observed peak of 759 W...

 

But because the 3090 is still air-cooled unlike the 2x w-cooled 2080 Tis, I run both of them at a more conservative oc for now, until the 3090 gets its 'water jacket' custom loop as well. And because of their 'hybrid' productivity functions, all GPUs retain their stock bios and are not hard-modded.

 

Finally - and very importantly NO MATTER WHAT GPU AND/OR RESOLUTION you run, both systems have access to a synchronized 200 GB rolling cache...the best thing one can do for FS2020 performance is to build up a big rolling cache, as discussed in earlier posts...

 

Stay tuned for updates on the relative performance differences at 4K / Ultra, but for now, two screenshot teasers of the same general area....enjoy

 

2080 Ti SLI-CFR:

 

 

  
3090:

 
    

 

 

Haven't tried expanding the games cache yet. I'll definitely have to do that.

Sorry if I mentioned this before but have you discovered that you can set engine failure parameters? I did a 747 flight where 30 minutes into the flight the engines started to fail one by one until only one engine was left and I was able to land with only one engine. Pretty neat stuff. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by UltraMega

[Andrew]

I just found out the world updates don't actually download and install automatically with the game updates. You need to manually download them in the marketplace menu.

[J7SC_Orion]

9 hours ago, UltraMega said:

Haven't tried expanding the games cache yet. I'll definitely have to do that.

Sorry if I mentioned this before but have you discovered that you can set engine failure parameters? I did a 747 flight where 30 minutes into the flight the engines started to fail one by one until only one engine was left and I was able to land with only one engine. Pretty neat stuff. 

  

...re. caches, even with a fast connection, there's always a latency lag to the 'nearest Microsoft Azure server providing you your stream out of its pool of > 2 petabytes. A my location, it is typically 20ms - 23ms. That is another area where the cache really helps. If you set rolling cache big enough, it will keep most of the earlier-parsed items (I set my rolling cache to 200 GB).  

 

...as to custom modding, the sky's the limit (pardon the pun).... some really crazy stuff, like attempting to fly a 747 to outer space, or 'bulk up' your Cessna's engine for mach 2. An example would be the YT vid below whereby the author provides some specific directory & file paths (caution !) as to where to do it in this or related vids ...of course the other flight model AI bits for that particular plane you are modding don't always take kindly to a lunatic parameter value being exchanged for the real thing. In any case, if you do such mods, I would make sure to have a 'clean copy' somewhere else on the drive (may be rename it FS2020old) so you can recover.

  

 

3 hours ago, Andrew said:

I just found out the world updates don't actually download and install automatically with the game updates. You need to manually download them in the marketplace menu.

   

...yeah, some of the giant patches download new features, but you have to 'activate' them in the marketplace. Others are separate 'fresh' downloads per the marketplace, depending on the version you purchased. When I installed the FS2020 on the second machine per above posts (ok as long as you don't have both copies active at the same time), I only had the default plane available, even with the 'premium deluxe' version...I needed to activate the rest of the planes at the marketplace again. ...same for some the world updates I had already on the first machine. 

  

  

  

Edited March 1, 2021 by J7SC_Orion

[UltraMega]

2 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

  

...re. caches, even with a fast connection, there's always a latency lag to the 'nearest Microsoft Azure server providing you your stream out of its pool of > 2 petabytes. A my location, it is typically 20ms - 23ms. That is another area where the cache really helps. If you set rolling cache big enough, it will keep most of the earlier-parsed items (I set my rolling cache to 200 GB).  

 

...as to custom modding, the sky's the limit (pardon the pun).... some really crazy stuff, like attempting to fly a 747 to outer space, or 'bulk up' your Cessna's engine for mach 2. An example would be the YT vid below whereby the author provides some specific directory & file paths (caution !) as to where to do it in this or related vids ...of course the other flight model AI bits for that particular plane you are modding don't always take kindly to a lunatic parameter value being exchanged for the real thing. In any case, if you do such mods, I would make sure to have a 'clean copy' somewhere else on the drive (may be rename it FS2020old) so you can recover.

  

 

   

...yeah, some of the giant patches download new features, but you have to 'activate' them in the marketplace. Others are separate 'fresh' downloads per the marketplace, depending on the version you purchased. When I installed the FS2020 on the second machine per above posts (ok as long as you don't have both copies active at the same time), I only had the default plane available, even with the 'premium deluxe' version...I needed to activate the rest of the planes at the marketplace again. ...same for some the world updates I had already on the first machine. 

  

  

  

Setting engine failure parameters is not a mod, it's part of the game fyi.

[J7SC_Orion]

2 hours ago, UltraMega said:

Setting engine failure parameters is not a mod, it's part of the game fyi.

  

...I know, but modding a Cessna for mach x does sound interesting, too  ! The above post / vid just underscores that it can be done, and how to do it...

[Andrew]

The Airbus A320 isn't very nice to me when I land. No matter how smooth the landing is, it always calls me names.

[J7SC_Orion]

8 minutes ago, Andrew said:

The Airbus A320 isn't very nice to me when I land. No matter how smooth the landing is, it always calls me names.

 

...like what names, if I make ask ?