pio

Well I'm glad that Microsoft is worried about these things, they should be. It's not like updates haven't broken systems in the past before or anything, so its not like I or others don't have valid concerns here. And that is a VERY good question, "Will Microsoft be able to deliver an extremely issue free update if its not optional?". Very VERY good question. Time will tell. I would like to make note though, that past experience with Microsoft says the answer is no. However, the correct answer is absolutely, "time will tell". We'll see. I don't have faith in them though based on their past and present. How am I arguing in bad faith regarding botnets? We discussed it already. I didn't avoid engaging in it, I directly responded previously. I don't see the point in beating a dead cow when we've already discussed it and together determined that botnets are not the sole cause for forcing updates.

Okay, I'll try to keep this organized with your points..... 1) You might think I'm being "paranoid" here with my thoughts that this is leading to more force. However, you also would have called me "paranoid" in 2015 when I was complaining about updates being forced to begin with when Windows 10 was released. It's not paranoia when Microsoft is doing exactly what I'm complaining about. Just because its not happening this year, doesn't mean its not coming. I never said it was going to happen tomorrow. I said, "that's where this road Microsoft is on is heading". 2) As mentioned by myself and other people already, botnets aren't necessarily the point of security updates. it's one of them, sure. You're the only one that keeps bringing up botnets. 3) Beyond the risk of a compatibility issue. Yes, drivers WOULD have something to do with compatibility, sure. Absolutely. That's not the point I made though is it? When the drivers are literally catching things on fire, or killing hardware in other ways, that's no longer a compatibility issue but a security issue since that "update" is now acting more like a "virus". It's counter productive. I'm not talking about killing functionality, I'm talking about updates to drivers that flat out KILL hardware. That's not a compatibility problem, its a security problem since a piece of software is physically harming my equipment that I've paid money for. It's a virus in that instance. This has been a problem a few different times over the years, and I for one do NOT want those kind of problems forced upon me. Interesting that you single out compatibility problems too though with updates though. If you're willing to admit that compatibility problems are a thing with updates, again....why is it okay to force them? As THAT is the whole point of the argument here, forcing updates vs not forcing them. I should have the ability to choose if I want updates installed or not, and which updates I apply. Same thing with service packs or feature updates. Same thing with OS upgrades. It's my hardware, not Microsoft's.

Very good points there. Doesn't need to be a 15" monster sub though, a good 8" can fill the room just as easily. But otherwise, absolutely spot on. I think by adding the z625 sub to the z5500 sub, what you're noticing is that you're hitting the tuning frequency a little harder since both subs are tuned around the same octave. Could also just be room placement causing that effect too. There's a LOT of things to consider with audio. By the way, consider me SUPER jealous of your 14Hz table. Apartment living keeps me above 40Hz most of the time.

I never said they were 100% going to force people on 11. The only post where I stated anything like that, I also stated, "I'm not sure as I have TPMS or whatever turned off, so I can't say for sure". What I AM saying though, is that this has been a slow move to that exact point. You start slow and work up to get mass adoption. You start by forcing small things like security patches. Next logical step in forcing updates would be service packs or "feature updates". This is where we are today. What's the next thing they can force update? Whole OS's. It's coming. That's the direction this road Microsoft is on is heading. Yes, I have a problem with totalitarian control over things that are supposed to be in my control. I should be in control of the security updates applied to MY computer. I should also be in control over what service packs I run, or what OS I run. Period. Do I have an issue with updates beyond a security risk? Yes absolutely since driver updates are now a part of Windows update whether you like it or not. Currently they're still "optional", but updates themselves used to be optional too. Driver updates have flat out killed hardware of mine in the past. Absolutely lit on fire kind of killed. Yes, I have a problem with Microsoft thinking they have control over MY hardware.

Video is private, will not allow us to watch it. Change the privacy settings maybe to "unlisted" and share the link? That way it still shouldn't show up publicly, but the link should still get to it. I think.....I'm not a "youtuber", so I could be wrong. I'd love to take a look and listen.

I can agree with most of that sure. There are benefits to staying up to date, yes. As far as Windows 10 Home vs Pro, the "updates" have always been forced. The "new versions", what used to be called "service packs" were not forced. Now they are. You say it yourself, you can see they've made changes to their update policy, this is why. You can install Windows 10 version 1607 right now and STAY on 1607, as it will not FORCE you to update to 21H2 or whatever the newest SP is. That's what they're changing. Again, they already did this to regular security patches with the release of 10. It's been a slow change. Windows 8.1 and older did NOT have forced updates for security patches or service packs. Windows 10 has forced security updates. Looking like Windows 11 and later 10 will have forced service packs. THAT is the issue, that they're forcing these things. Again, its been complained about since 10 was released. Not arguing whether or not using security patches is a good thing or not, obviously security patches in general are a good thing. Feature updates are not worth forcing people onto though. And I still don't think even security patches should be forced. What would've happened if everyone was FORCED onto Windows Vista from XP? Half the computers in the world would've ceased to function until driver fixes were implemented. You don't see that as a problem? Because that's where they're heading. They started with security updates, now we're forcing service packs and "feature updates". Next, mark my words it WILL be forced full OS updates. If you can't follow what they've done, and be able to predict where this is heading, well then I dunno what to tell you. It's pretty obvious where the next logical step would be.

EDIT: DP, see edit above.

So you're not saying that Windows updates fixing botnet attacks is why this forcing updates is a good thing for average people? Okay.....just because "updates (can) protect computers from becoming silently infected from a botnet", doesn't mean we should be forcing them when the average user isn't targeted by those type of attacks. If that type of attack isn't a problem for average people, then why are we forcing updates again then? You know, I "can" get hit by a bus tomorrow. Does that mean we need to forcibly park all buses? Or maybe we need to force people to look before they cross the road by removing their ability to go in the road unless they look? Force and coercion is NEVER the answer. Only reason I still do is RDP and networking. I grew up with networking in Windows 98 and newer. Networking in Linux is different, and not something I'm aware of how to do. I've tried connecting to my Windows NAS in Linux, and I always end up with permissions issues, or I can't find the share, something stupid. Definitely PEBKAC error there, I'll admit it. I also rely heavily on RDP built into Windows, because I refuse to install a third party software for stuff that's been built into the OS for years. There's also a select few games that won't run (yet) on Linux. My reasons why I'm stuck and complaining. I assure you, I've been contemplating Linux daily for a while now. It's just not QUITE there yet. Either that or I'm not quite there yet. You go ahead and determine.

So the K6 rig arrived. The case was nothing at all like I thought it'd be....its completely broken. Huge dent in the bottom, and the front faceplate has all the little plastic knubs broken off (and not in the box either), so the faceplate just falls off. Good news though, flat caps on the motherboard!!!! There was also a Diamond Stealth 64 PCI GPU in there, and an ISA Creative Sound Blaster in there, CT2502 I think model number. Looks like a Creative Soundblaster 16? I also ordered a newer CT4700 PCI sound card for it already, an Adaptec Ultra DMA 133 card, and a Radeon 8500 for it. I do still need to check caps in the PSU, if they're swollen....I'll have to recap since I'm not going to hunt for a "new" AT style PSU. So looks like I'll be in the market for another case, and maybe a few other small bits and bobs. Oh, that DIN5 to PS2 adapter.....the seller immediately responded and offered to ship a replacement. So yay, +1 to ebay finally! Sometimes you find a decent seller that understands things happen outside of your control.

Dude, everyday users are not being targeted. At least not on that kind of a scale. The new scam is now telephone calls and facebook messages. It's always been about money, that's how virus' went from harmless to harmful, when they started demanding money to "fix" the virus. Back in 1999, virus' were just simply an executable that'd open your CD drive up at random, or change your screensaver. Another popular virus back in the day was shutting down a machine remotely. No harm, just funny. Virus' started "for the lolz" back when the internet got traction. They changed to a money making scheme when other people started using them and re-writing them for harm. There's no money on internet virus' anymore since everyone is now aware to keep their browsers and anti-virus up to date, and (for the most part) be careful what you click on. However....that's exactly why the new type of attacks work since they're coming from "trusted" contacts on Facebook or your telephone. Updates don't fix that. Now....YES updates DO fix things that you're talking about such as botnet attacks. But how many average people do you know that have been DDOS'ed or attacked by any other type of botnet? Updates aren't fixing anything for the average user. And big companies probably don't even use Windows 10. My local bank's ATM is still on 7 for example.

If you're the same age as me, and you've been involved with computers as long as me....you'd already know that automatic updates USED to be able to be disabled. You'd also know that automatic updates originally started by just automatically downloading the update and waiting for the user to choose when to install it. Yes, its how updates have been working on Windows 10 this entire time. That's been a complaint of mine and many others for the lifetime of Windows 10 so far. We've been screaming at Microsoft to stop forcing them. Complete version updates however, have still been user choose able, up until this article. Keep up. And why is a specific version of Windows 10 reaching EOL when they already have a new OS? But yet other versions of Windows 10 are not? They're service packs, just like they've always had. Service packs have NEVER been forced in the past, ever. Fact. This is why this is a news article. Another fact, is that "automatic updates" themselves have never been forced up until Windows 10.

Let's see....having my computer turned on and connected to the internet, it automatically downloads and installs updates all on its own. Without my input. I cannot turn that "feature" off either, the only thing I can do is "delay" the updates. They still get applied whether I want them to be or not. That is force. The only choice I have is to disable the internet entirely on the machine if I do NOT want updates. That's not free choice, that's coercion, or in other words, force. This was NOT a "feature" of Windows 8.1 or older. Only 10 and newer.

Fair enough. Learn something new everyday. I still don't think that forcing people to do the update is the answer though. If we're to move onto HTML 5, wouldn't just the mass adoption of HTML 5 over Flash be enough? Adobe already quit supporting Flash a while ago, it would die on its own peacefully without forcing it off through updates. Hey, something we can agree on! I do have one nitpick though, the center paragraph. You say its "nothing new", but it is new. Otherwise this wouldn't be a news article. Forcing updates IS a new thing with Windows 10 and Microsoft. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Go run even Windows 8.1. Guess what, updates aren't forced there. Forced updates have been a complaint with Windows 10 since it was released.

Agreed, that's been another pain as a repair guy. Those stupid flash installers. Also, not fixed by updates, but rather a change in user behavior since we don't use flash anymore. Some people still somehow get those though. I swear some people, you could put them in a round room and they'd still find a corner.

I thought the topic was forced updates? By your definition, making me address more and more points about moving the goal posts.....aren't YOU.....moving the goal posts? Also, isn't that EXACTLY what I said just in different words? Didn't I say, "changing your opinion or topic"?

Must be some new term or something that recently had its definition changed then. Because I understood it to mean changing your opinion or changing the topic. Which that's what you're doing by saying I'm changing from XP to 7 in my arguments. Another example of your behavior being "moving the goalposts" is by calling my stance "conspiracy theory", again changing the subject from forcing updates. I never argued that XP alone was the topic, the topic here is forcing updates. You can choose any old OS without updates anymore. I don't care. XP was just one example. But by you dancing around the metaphorical goal posts, they might appear to be moving. Since you've yet to answer my challenge. Show me one good example of updates ACTUALLY preventing a randomized average user from infection. Because I can show many MANY examples of other things causing that prevention long before forced updates.

You're the one that moved the damn goal posts mate! I made a point, you countered it by saying that (paraphrasing here) "oh, nobody uses Windows XP anymore so of course there's no virus' for XP".....so I countered with, "fine, use 7 then". Are we even in the same conversation here? I made a point, and you're dancing around it. Who's really moving the goal posts here? Because my point hasn't changed any in the slightest.

Age is just a number, it has nothing to do with your real life experience. I asked your opinion on Steam about a youtube channel, yes. I received your opinion, and made my own decision on it after hearing your opinion, and doing research on my own about it later. That's how a regular person makes up their mind when taking in new information. Those other "conspiracy beliefs" were political, and I'm not bringing them to a tech forum, and guess what? They're more of a real problem than what Microsoft and their stupid forced updates is. I can choose a different OS and avoid forced updates. I can't choose the laws and if they're being followed or not. Big difference there talking about things within my control, and things outside of my control. Talking about moving goal posts..... For the record, my complaint that I had about a local problem was a real thing. You said it was conspiracy mumbo jumbo, but yet it made national headlines when the outrage in my state hit. Again, political, so leaving the details aside. And what are you smoking and can I get some? My experience using retro PC's on old OS's without security patches has nothing to do with forcing updates on people? Really??? You do realize that a very large percentage of people STILL use Windows 7 right? Fine, go use Windows 7. I don't care. Point was, just turn updates off and see how far you can get browsing the internet. I'll bet you $100, right here, right now, that you can browse the internet JUST FINE on an outdated / not updated OS. It'd be an easy $100, so long as you don't click on things that you already know not to click on. The browser, anti-virus, and the lack of opportunity are more of a reason behind less viruses than forced updates is.

Well you know what, if my opinion is worthless then just keep scrolling mate. You want to sit here and argue on and on about how wonderful saint Microsoft is. As somebody who has used PC's since PC became a freaking term, I think my opinion should be counted. And I can tell anyone, flat out....updates DO NOT AFFECT WHAT YOU CLICK ON. But by all means, keep defending Microsoft FORCING THINGS on people. Updates and new OS rollouts have NEVER been forced. NEVER. Up until Windows 10. I'm not arguing that updates are a good thing or a bad thing, but the forcing of them is what I'm against. I always run my updates. But that's a choice that I make myself as it should be. Here, here's a challenge for you. You appear to be the generation that enjoys challenges right? Don't worry, its not a tide pod challenge. Go run a Windows XP box for a week. Just use it daily, use it for whatever you still can use it for. Browse the internet with it like you normally would (after you get it working of course, IF you can lol). Tell me after a week how much updates really affected your ability to browse safely. Then come back and talk. I've done this. Did it just a few weeks ago actually. I still have a few old boxes left to finish, and guess what? I'll be using them daily to ensure they're working too. Funny......updates being disabled has NOT affected their ability any at all in the slightest. Until you've browsed on an "unsecured / unupdated" system, I don't think you have much room for discussion about updates. They're absolutely pointless unless you are specifically being targeted against a certain attack that is being patched. And guess what? You have to click on something to acquire a virus. If you're using a modern enough browser, your browser is already your first layer of protection. Followed by your antivirus. But sure, common sense and actual real life experience means nothing when the almighty Microsoft wants to force things on people yet again. We'll just go ahead and go with it right? Right. K.

You sincerely underestimate how out of touch the average person is. You want sources, I am my source, as the resident Craigslist PC repair guy for my local area at the time. I can tell you, without a doubt, that Limewire was still being used in the early 2010's era. I remember very vividly fixing a Windows XP box in about 2014 / 2015 or so, that still had Limewire on it, that the user was upset with because Limewire had quit working and wanted to know another way to get their free music. Yes, it was a few years after Limewire was shutdown, since Limewire shut down in 2010. You really think in 2012 regular people weren't still trying to find an alternative to it? Eventually, it seems anyway, that the masses have switched to Youtube, Pandora, and Spotify. But that wasn't the case in the early 2010's mate. Streaming wasn't massively adopted by the general populace until just very recently. Yes, there's PLENTY of other ways to acquire malware, but general idiots trying to pirate was certainly a much larger factor. Microsoft had very little to do with that change in user behavior. EDIT: All I'm arguing here is that Microsoft and their forced updates has a LOT less to do with virus acquirement by the average user than you're giving them credit for. Instead, I'm proposing that a change in average user behavior has been the bigger change in virus replication on PC's. Dude, I can still browse the internet on an unpatched version of Windows XP. Updates don't affect what you click on. Updates have VERY little to do with average user security. They help....sure, when the updates are stable.

10 years ago, Limewire still worked mate. It's kind of difficult to get a virus these days because there's less chances available. You still see just as many people falling for scam emails, that hasn't changed. Heavy handed take downs have affected virus replication on PC's moreso than what Microsoft has done. I'm sure Windows 10 can get a virus, its just not as easy to come across one anymore. People used to get a virus because they knew that you could get free music on the internet. Now, most people just use Youtube for their free music, or Pandora, or Spotify. At least, that's what I've personally seen the average user do. Adult content websites were another, but in general web browsing is considerably safer these days with modern browsers. Again, not exactly 100% Microsoft's fault here either since Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Brave, and all the other browsers aren't made by Microsoft.

Very familiar with Winamp, it really whips the llama's ash. What I mean by don't boost, I mean leave the EQ at 0 for what you're wanting boosted, and turn everything else down. For example, if you're wanting more bass, keep 60Hz and 31Hz at 0dB on the EQ, but turn all the rest of the EQ down to -6 or -12. The preamp also should most of the time be at 0. Of course it depends on the source, most of the stuff I listen to is bass heavy and recorded near clipping anyway. Software is fine for EQ's. Big long TLDR DAC explanation / My opinions on upgrades from where you are

I know for a fact Xonars have crossover capabilities for each analogue channel when using the Xonar as your "DAC" (running the analogue green, pink, blue wires out). Crossovers adjust what frequency each speaker cuts off at. You obviously cannot go beyond what the speakers can do, or the enclosure. However you can tweak it some to the point where its beneficial. For example, say the z5500 has a 150Hz crossover between the speakers and the sub. You could try changing that down to say 120Hz or 100Hz, to bring some more of the directional sounding upper bass frequencies away from the sub, and up to your ears with the small speakers. Or, you could change it upwards to 180-200Hz and let the more powerful subwoofer handle those frequencies. The goal of a subwoofer, in most systems, is to BLEND in the lower octave or two of sound as these are frequencies your main front speakers generally just cannot produce. In a perfect system, you should not be able to pinpoint exactly where the sub is at in the room, it should just "be there". In GENERAL that frequency is around 80Hz or so. It will vary room to room and setup to setup. THX standard is 120Hz. I'm not 100% sure you'll get there with the z5500 set, but you should be able to do fairly well. The EQ would be a similar help, whereas you can lower certain frequencies that are too boosted as is. NEVER boost frequencies. Boosting causes distortion. It's always better to take the rest of the frequencies DOWN instead of cranking the one lacking one up. Say you find that 200Hz is extremely loud compared to 500Hz and 100Hz. You could tone 200Hz down a little in the EQ to make that one frequency a little less loud. TLDR: We're all here to help you out. The point, in my opinion, with audio....so long as YOU are happy with it, that's what matters. If you want more, its just a question away. You can have perfect, or you can have fun. It's difficult to have both.

Yeah, here's a little trick to finding the right spot for the subwoofer. Place your subwoofers, one at a time, on your chair. Try to have them elevated so the port is near where your ears would be at when sitting and listening. Play some bass. Now......walk around your room and find your "hotspot", the wall or corner where the bass hits the hardest at with the sub in your chair. That corner of your room is where the subwoofer should go. You can do the same with the other subwoofer and put them in different corners or the same corner it really won't matter with those setups too much since they're different tuning frequencies anyway. You can always do it the opposite. Place your sub in a corner, sit and listen. Place it in another corner and repeat, etc. It's faster to put it in your chair and walk around the room though. You can also play with port placement as well. Firing the port AT the corner vs firing it out into the room. If you fire it AT the corner, make sure its away from the wall so the air can get out and move. The speaker cone itself in that type of enclosure doesn't make the sound, the port does.

Logitech made quite a few mistakes in those setups, but alas....they're "gaming" setups, not exactly "audiophile". Completely different worlds there. For a gaming speaker setup, they're fine. The reason why the smaller sub "hits harder" is due to enclosure tuning, the z625 is tuned higher than the z5500 is. The z5500 is tuned, I'm guessing, right around 40Hz or so from my last listen to a set. The z625 is going to be tuned closer to the 50-60Hz range. Higher bass frequencies "hit harder" with less power, so they sound "boomier" for music and gaming. Lower frequencies require more power generally. That's why a home theater subwoofer, like a 15" that extends down to say 18Hz, probably has a 500w-1000w RMS amplifier attached (real 1000w RMS). It's just a different realm of audio than what I'm used to. They're fine for their cost and their intended use. I wouldn't do any critical listening on them without seriously fine tuning their EQ and crossovers, but for just blasting some music or enjoying explosions in a game......they'll work great for that.