Optimal sound card/audio setup w Z-5500 Logitech sound system

[pio]

3 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Can you offer any recommendations for making it more boomy? It's superb right now, but I think I can make it even better with the right enclosure, or the right subwoofer positioning relative to walls or whatever. The subwoofers seem to kick harder when you have them positioned right. And on the desk and table is not ideal.

 

Yeah, here's a little trick to finding the right spot for the subwoofer.  Place your subwoofers, one at a time, on your chair.  Try to have them elevated so the port is near where your ears would be at when sitting and listening.  Play some bass.  Now......walk around your room and find your "hotspot", the wall or corner where the bass hits the hardest at with the sub in your chair.  That corner of your room is where the subwoofer should go.  You can do the same with the other subwoofer and put them in different corners or the same corner it really won't matter with those setups too much since they're different tuning frequencies anyway.

You can always do it the opposite.  Place your sub in a corner, sit and listen.  Place it in another corner and repeat, etc.  It's faster to put it in your chair and walk around the room though.  You can also play with port placement as well.  Firing the port AT the corner vs firing it out into the room.  If you fire it AT the corner, make sure its away from the wall so the air can get out and move.  The speaker cone itself in that type of enclosure doesn't make the sound, the port does.

[Storm-Chaser]

20 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

Either way, should be a boomy setup.  Definitely consider a sound card for the EQ and crossover adjustments it provides for you, it'll help clean up the sound some.  If you're going optical, well nevermind.  Optical is optical regardless if its onboard or a sound card.  If you enjoy the Logitechs, that's what matters.

Definitely going to pick out a decent sound card here, if anything just for more control like you are saying. I can experiment and might as well have good equipment. However, my motherboard, MSI MEG Z390 ACE has a very good sound card but as far as I can tell, they don't really let you manipulate much. Like no tweaking the pre amp or equalizer. And no software to utilize for tweaking your audio stuff. Which is really annoying because like I said the board has a pretty good sound card built into it. 

 

I will do some research the next couple days to make a decision.  I will run it by you guys before I pull the trigger on the new soundcard.

[pio]

14 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Definitely going to pick out a decent sound card here, if anything just for more control like you are saying. I can experiment and might as well have good equipment. However, my motherboard, MSI MEG Z390 ACE has a very good sound card but as far as I can tell, they don't really let you manipulate much. Like no tweaking the pre amp or equalizer. And no software to utilize for tweaking your audio stuff. Which is really annoying because like I said the board has a pretty good sound card built into it. 

 

I will do some research the next couple days to make a decision.  I will run it by you guys before I pull the trigger on the new soundcard.

I know for a fact Xonars have crossover capabilities for each analogue channel when using the Xonar as your "DAC" (running the analogue green, pink, blue wires out).  Crossovers adjust what frequency each speaker cuts off at.  You obviously cannot go beyond what the speakers can do, or the enclosure.  However you can tweak it some to the point where its beneficial.  For example, say the z5500 has a 150Hz crossover between the speakers and the sub.  You could try changing that down to say 120Hz or 100Hz, to bring some more of the directional sounding upper bass frequencies away from the sub, and up to your ears with the small speakers.  Or, you could change it upwards to 180-200Hz and let the more powerful subwoofer handle those frequencies.  The goal of a subwoofer, in most systems, is to BLEND in the lower octave or two of sound as these are frequencies your main front speakers generally just cannot produce.  In a perfect system, you should not be able to pinpoint exactly where the sub is at in the room, it should just "be there".  In GENERAL that frequency is around 80Hz or so.  It will vary room to room and setup to setup.  THX standard is 120Hz.  I'm not 100% sure you'll get there with the z5500 set, but you should be able to do fairly well.

The EQ would be a similar help, whereas you can lower certain frequencies that are too boosted as is.  NEVER boost frequencies.  Boosting causes distortion.  It's always better to take the rest of the frequencies DOWN instead of cranking the one lacking one up.  Say you find that 200Hz is extremely loud compared to 500Hz and 100Hz.  You could tone 200Hz down a little in the EQ to make that one frequency a little less loud.

TLDR:  We're all here to help you out.  The point, in my opinion, with audio....so long as YOU are happy with it, that's what matters.  If you want more, its just a question away.  You can have perfect, or you can have fun.  It's difficult to have both.

Edited February 10, 2022 by pioneerisloud

[Storm-Chaser]

On 03/02/2022 at 13:46, Outsider said:

Skip the sound card

 

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in California

WWW.SCHIIT.COM

 

The Fulla is the cheaper model. 

 

1/8 to triple RCA cables should work. 

 

Sound cards are generally overpriced for what you get, if you really want or require onboard sound then next time plan ahead if possible and use the money you would spend on the sound card on a better MB with better onboard sound. Still you can't beat going with a USB DAC. 

If you need soundsound then software should be good enough for that

Okay I'm listening... Tell me more about USB DAC and why I should go get one. 

 

Maybe I will pick up a USB DAC and decent sound card as well. 

[Storm-Chaser]

2 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

I know for a fact Xonars have crossover capabilities for each analogue channel when using the Xonar as your "DAC" (running the analogue green, pink, blue wires out).  Crossovers adjust what frequency each speaker cuts off at.  You obviously cannot go beyond what the speakers can do, or the enclosure.  However you can tweak it some to the point where its beneficial.  For example, say the z5500 has a 150Hz crossover between the speakers and the sub.  You could try changing that down to say 120Hz or 100Hz, to bring some more of the directional sounding upper bass frequencies away from the sub, and up to your ears with the small speakers.  Or, you could change it upwards to 180-200Hz and let the more powerful subwoofer handle those frequencies.  The goal of a subwoofer, in most systems, is to BLEND in the lower octave or two of sound as these are frequencies your main front speakers generally just cannot produce.  In a perfect system, you should not be able to pinpoint exactly where the sub is at in the room, it should just "be there".  In GENERAL that frequency is around 80Hz or so.  It will vary room to room and setup to setup.  THX standard is 120Hz.  I'm not 100% sure you'll get there with the z5500 set, but you should be able to do fairly well.

The EQ would be a similar help, whereas you can lower certain frequencies that are too boosted as is.  NEVER boost frequencies.  Boosting causes distortion.  It's always better to take the rest of the frequencies DOWN instead of cranking the one lacking one up.  Say you find that 200Hz is extremely loud compared to 500Hz and 100Hz.  You could tone 200Hz down a little in the EQ to make that one frequency a little less loud.

TLDR:  We're all here to help you out.  The point, in my opinion, with audio....so long as YOU are happy with it, that's what matters.  If you want more, its just a question away.  You can have perfect, or you can have fun.  It's difficult to have both.

 

Alright then I am going to have some fun with this little project. I think I am on the right track here with all this excellent advice. Generally speaking, I am not an audio expert (just an overclocking expert and tech enthusiast, CPU collector, etc), so this is all good stuff and good food for thought, at least from my perspective. But I've really been through rough seas here (who hasn't? lol) in the past year and music is really helping me get through the days. That's why I can afford to put some money and time into this one. I have my gallium based liquid metal loop on hold ATM, but eventually I will get another z820 and get that going as well but that's still a few months out.

 

And I'm not through adding more horse power to this sound system. It's going to get better from here. I have an analog splitter coming from amazon tomorrow. I can then (hope to) activate my third sub (sub only) which was from a Z-5300 series Logitech system. All of the small speakers are shot, but the sub is still okay. It should kick really hard with three subwoofers going.  It's not being used so I might as well throw it in the mix. 

 

What I am reverting to for now is a program called winamp. Donno if you have used it, but the program is actually very useful. There is a built in EQ with a number of presets you can try out to dial in your speakers for your own preferences. When you say never boost frequencies, do you mean dont use pre-amp?

 

[pio]

2 hours ago, Storm-Chaser said:

 

Alright then I am going to have some fun with this little project. I think I am on the right track here with all this excellent advice. Generally speaking, I am not an audio expert (just an overclocking expert and tech enthusiast, CPU collector, etc), so this is all good stuff and good food for thought, at least from my perspective. But I've really been through rough seas here (who hasn't? lol) in the past year and music is really helping me get through the days. That's why I can afford to put some money and time into this one. I have my gallium based liquid metal loop on hold ATM, but eventually I will get another z820 and get that going as well but that's still a few months out.

 

And I'm not through adding more horse power to this sound system. It's going to get better from here. I have an analog splitter coming from amazon tomorrow. I can then (hope to) activate my third sub (sub only) which was from a Z-5300 series Logitech system. All of the small speakers are shot, but the sub is still okay. It should kick really hard with three subwoofers going.  It's not being used so I might as well throw it in the mix. 

 

What I am reverting to for now is a program called winamp. Donno if you have used it, but the program is actually very useful. There is a built in EQ with a number of presets you can try out to dial in your speakers for your own preferences. When you say never boost frequencies, do you mean dont use pre-amp?

 

Very familiar with Winamp, it really whips the llama's ash.

 

What I mean by don't boost, I mean leave the EQ at 0 for what you're wanting boosted, and turn everything else down.  For example, if you're wanting more bass, keep 60Hz and 31Hz at 0dB on the EQ, but turn all the rest of the EQ down to -6 or -12.  The preamp also should most of the time be at 0.  Of course it depends on the source, most of the stuff I listen to is bass heavy and recorded near clipping anyway.  Software is fine for EQ's.  

Big long TLDR DAC explanation / My opinions on upgrades from where you are
 

Spoiler

And remember, DAC = "Digital to Analogue Converter".  Your onboard sound is technically a DAC.  USB DAC is just that, one type of a way to convert digital to analogue.  Sound cards are also a DAC.  Your speakers have DAC's built right into them if they have digital inputs (the z5500's for sure do).  Adding a DAC on an already digital line isn't going to do anything except maybe add an extra EQ to the mix.  Not using the digital inputs on the speakers and running the analogue 3.5mm connections you would want a sound card or DAC in the mix, something capable of putting out 5.1 channels of analogue at least as well.  The added bonus of either the USB DAC or the sound card will depend on what all features that individual part has.

For example, I'm running USB out to my DAC / Amp, which then goes to my speakers.  If I add my Xonar before the DAC / Amp using analogue outs from the sound card, I get the added benefits of the Xonar coloring the sound some, and using the DAC on the Xonar.  This would no longer use the DAC in the USB DAC since the signal is already analogue on the 3.5mm to RCA.  The amp / DAC itself may add coloring too depending on if it has an EQ or other settings in it.

That's pretty much the jist of it.  I too would suggest a DAC, but only for the purpose of getting you to a better overall setup than Logitechs.  The Logitechs are just powered speakers, some with a DAC built in.  Tons of options open up with a DAC.  Headphones amps mostly, but some have speaker amps built in too.  Could run the DAC to an amplifier for better main speakers, or could use powered monitors off it.  If you're just wanting more bass, adding more subs will do it.  Lower frequency, you'll want to build bigger or smarter though.  The Logitech equipment is okay, but it can be out driven by a $120 ish powered subwoofer for pure bass.  You're only seeing the middle ish range of what a subwoofer can do with those.  20Hz is where its at, well or as low as you can get lol.

 

But for any sort of upgrades you can do WITH the Logitech sets, I really think a sound card is about the best you can really do for them.  Beyond that, you're getting into some better sized satellite speakers, receiver if you're doing surround, amp if you're not, and some form of DAC be it USB or a sound card.  Sometimes you can just simply run HDMI to a receiver and do great for surround.  Subwoofer to taste, but there's plenty of monsters.  Speakers, well that depends on desk size but you could hack up Logitechs to start too with a receiver.

 

My opinion from what you've mentioned so far?  Start with a receiver and a proper subwoofer, and hack up the Logitechs for mains if you must (eventually upgrade to some bookshelfs of any size or a 5.1 set or something).  Run HDMI to it.  Done.  This will be the fastest and most beneficial upgrade paths you could make since you'd alter crossovers, provide more power, and you'd be getting lower octaves out of the subwoofer by replacing those with a singular one that extends much lower.  You'd also have a decent DAC as most home theater receivers have a decent DAC built in.

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by pioneerisloud

[Storm-Chaser]

11 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

Logitech made quite a few mistakes in those setups, but alas....they're "gaming" setups, not exactly "audiophile".  Completely different worlds there.  For a gaming speaker setup, they're fine.  The reason why the smaller sub "hits harder" is due to enclosure tuning, the z625 is tuned higher than the z5500 is.  The z5500 is tuned, I'm guessing, right around 40Hz or so from my last listen to a set.  The z625 is going to be tuned closer to the 50-60Hz range.  Higher bass frequencies "hit harder" with less power, so they sound "boomier" for music and gaming.  Lower frequencies require more power generally.  That's why a home theater subwoofer, like a 15" that extends down to say 18Hz, probably has a 500w-1000w RMS amplifier attached (real 1000w RMS).

It's just a different realm of audio than what I'm used to.  They're fine for their cost and their intended use.  I wouldn't do any critical listening on them without seriously fine tuning their EQ and crossovers, but for just blasting some music or enjoying explosions in a game......they'll work great for that.

Yeah I get that. It's a little annoying that Logitech makes this huge 10" subwoofer that weights as much as an engine block and then really limit control over it. But the tuning is definitely helping already. I'm also using Equalizer APO which is implemented mostly for playing music on youtube / songs on the internet to help with the bass / treble "situation". Other scenario is for that which whipps the llamas ass. 

 

It sounds really good like this:

 

 

Ill be back with more updates later...

[Storm-Chaser]

Finding a good balance so far... I will also upload another video with another song later with a little more thump to it. 

 

Logitech hybrid sound system Z5500 and Z625 - YouTube

 

 

[pio]

3 hours ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Finding a good balance so far... I will also upload another video with another song later with a little more thump to it. 

 

Logitech hybrid sound system Z5500 and Z625 - YouTube

 

 

Video is private, will not allow us to watch it.  Change the privacy settings maybe to "unlisted" and share the link?  That way it still shouldn't show up publicly, but the link should still get to it.  I think.....I'm not a "youtuber", so I could be wrong.

I'd love to take a look and listen.

Edited February 10, 2022 by pioneerisloud

[Snakecharmed]

2 hours ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Finding a good balance so far... I will also upload another video with another song later with a little more thump to it. 

 

Logitech hybrid sound system Z5500 and Z625 - YouTube

 

 

 

Your video appears to be set to private.

 

Okay, so going back through the last several posts, here are some loosely connected thoughts of mine across those posts.

 

I never thought I would see the day when Winamp would need an introduction. I don’t know if that means Storm-Chaser is young or Storm-Chaser thinks pioneerisloud is young.

 

I’m not sure if a small third sub is going to offer much. The Z-5300 sub is just 6.5”. You’ll have a legitimate-sized sub at 10” from the Z-5500 that in theory should do the heavy lifting, a Z625 sub for which I can’t find any published specs, and the Z-5300 sub will be a toy. Also, since they’re all going to be tuned differently, I don’t expect them to be very harmonious together. There’s going to be an artificial bump starting at the bottom end of the weakest sub’s frequency range.

 

Aside from the tuning issues of three non-tunable subs, I don't think the small sub will be able to provide anything other than the ability to show off. A 15” sub is not only able to hit lower frequencies, but has more surface area than a 10”, 8”, and a 6.5” combined. Meet my servo-based 14 Hz end table. Forget about the pounding in your chest. The real pounding is between your ears.

 

 

As far as a DAC, there’s no need to get both a sound card and a DAC. The DAC would create an entirely different connectivity path than what you have now and be recognized as a separate sound output device by your operating system. It completely bypasses any internal hardware. It goes:

 

Motherboard  > USB DAC > Amplifier > Passive speakers/active subwoofer

 

The DAC and amplifier can be the same physical unit if you opt for an integrated solution.

 

Like other active speakers, the connectivity path for the Z-5500 is simple:

 

Onboard audio or sound card > Active speakers

 

The Z-5500 just gives you more options as far as what cables you use to make the connection.

 

As for onboard sound, a lot of onboard solutions are decent these days, but even those that have a dedicated audio path that measures well when the system is idle won’t stay that way under load. Noise and distortion levels will increase when the CPU/GPU load increases. To what degree and whether it’s noticeable to enough people is another matter, but a motherboard isn’t going to devote enough PCB space to audio hardware compared to a dedicated sound card.

 

A sound card provides better separation from the EMI coming from the motherboard, but to reach a palatable price point, most sound cards aren’t going to feature top-notch hardware either. The other issue is connectivity. USB has and will outlive ISA, PCI, and PCI-E slots. However, sound cards are the most straightforward add-on solution for active speakers.

 

Theoretically, external DACs would provide an even cleaner signal. They're far removed from the source of the EMI and aren't constrained by space restrictions imposed by a single motherboard slot when only video cards have de facto acceptance for being extra large. The next level is to separate the DAC and amp so they both have their own chassis and not be bound by sharing one smaller chassis.

 

Since the Z-5500 can do its own sound processing and has an optical input, I would initially be inclined to run an optical cable from the onboard audio S/PDIF out and let the speakers handle the rest. However, that would mean less fine tuning control and Logitech's hardware is almost certainly going to color the sound a certain way for better or worse. You can run analog from a sound card instead, but that would introduce more noise than a digital connection.

 

Ultimately, the conclusion is the same as what pioneerisloud said. If you’re happy with the sound, then that’s all that matters. But if you want, we can help fill in the technical background for the how and why.

[pio]

18 minutes ago, Snakecharmed said:

 

Your video appears to be set to private.

 

Okay, so going back through the last several posts, here are some loosely connected thoughts of mine across those posts.

 

I never thought I would see the day when Winamp would need an introduction. I don’t know if that means Storm-Chaser is young or Storm-Chaser thinks pioneerisloud is young.

 

I’m not sure if a small third sub is going to offer much. The Z-5300 sub is just 6.5”. You’ll have a legitimate-sized sub at 10” from the Z-5500 that in theory should do the heavy lifting, a Z625 sub for which I can’t find any published specs, and the Z-5300 sub will be a toy. Also, since they’re all going to be tuned differently, I don’t expect them to be very harmonious together. There’s going to be an artificial bump starting at the bottom end of the weakest sub’s frequency range.

 

Aside from the tuning issues of three non-tunable subs, I don't think the small sub will be able to provide anything other than the ability to show off. A 15” sub is not only able to hit lower frequencies, but has more surface area than a 10”, 8”, and a 6.5” combined. Meet my servo-based 14 Hz end table. Forget about the pounding in your chest. The real pounding is between your ears.

 

 

As far as a DAC, there’s no need to get both a sound card and a DAC. The DAC would create an entirely different connectivity path than what you have now and be recognized as a separate sound output device by your operating system. It completely bypasses any internal hardware. It goes:

 

Motherboard  > USB DAC > Amplifier > Passive speakers/active subwoofer

 

The DAC and amplifier can be the same physical unit if you opt for an integrated solution.

 

Like other active speakers, the connectivity path for the Z-5500 is simple:

 

Onboard audio or sound card > Active speakers

 

The Z-5500 just gives you more options as far as what cables you use to make the connection.

 

As for onboard sound, a lot of onboard solutions are decent these days, but even those that have a dedicated audio path that measures well when the system is idle won’t stay that way under load. Noise and distortion levels will increase when the CPU/GPU load increases. To what degree and whether it’s noticeable to enough people is another matter, but a motherboard isn’t going to devote enough PCB space to audio hardware compared to a dedicated sound card.

 

A sound card provides better separation from the EMI coming from the motherboard, but to reach a palatable price point, most sound cards aren’t going to feature top-notch hardware either. The other issue is connectivity. USB has and will outlive ISA, PCI, and PCI-E slots. However, sound cards are the most straightforward add-on solution for active speakers.

 

Theoretically, external DACs would provide an even cleaner signal. They're far removed from the source of the EMI and aren't constrained by space restrictions imposed by a single motherboard slot when only video cards have de facto acceptance for being extra large. The next level is to separate the DAC and amp so they both have their own chassis and not be bound by sharing one smaller chassis.

 

Since the Z-5500 can do its own sound processing and has an optical input, I would initially be inclined to run an optical cable from the onboard audio S/PDIF out and let the speakers handle the rest. However, that would mean less fine tuning control and Logitech's hardware is almost certainly going to color the sound a certain way for better or worse. You can run analog from a sound card instead, but that would introduce more noise than a digital connection.

 

Ultimately, the conclusion is the same as what pioneerisloud said. If you’re happy with the sound, then that’s all that matters. But if you want, we can help fill in the technical background for the how and why.

Very good points there.  Doesn't need to be a 15" monster sub though, a good 8" can fill the room just as easily.  But otherwise, absolutely spot on.  I think by adding the z625 sub to the z5500 sub, what you're noticing is that you're hitting the tuning frequency a little harder since both subs are tuned around the same octave.  Could also just be room placement causing that effect too.  There's a LOT of things to consider with audio.

By the way, consider me SUPER jealous of your 14Hz table.  Apartment living keeps me above 40Hz most of the time.

Edited February 10, 2022 by pioneerisloud

[Storm-Chaser]

Okay video should be fixed now... give it whirl. Ill be back later with a more aggressive song to really push the system hard

 

so hang tight for that. But I used this one for now (Toby Keith) because it's super crisp and clear. 

 

 

[pio]

7 hours ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Okay video should be fixed now... give it whirl. Ill be back later with a more aggressive song to really push the system hard

 

so hang tight for that. But I used this one for now (Toby Keith) because it's super crisp and clear. 

 

 

It has more thump than my setup.    I'm rocking a 6.5" Pioneer soundbar subwoofer that I scored at a thrift store for $7. Only reason I don't have a giant sub is because neighbors.  If they keep pounding their little soundbar sub at 4am though.....I'll tell you what, they're going to wish they had a different neighbor after I bring in a real sub.

 

As I said before though, if you're happy with it, that's what matters.  If you're after advice?  Get rid of the Logitech and step into some real speakers.  These types of setups can be anywhere from thrift store finds and ebay amp kits all the way up into the thousands of dollars.  Just like a PC.  However this time its not framerates you're after, but ease of listening on your ears.  You can start by using bits and pieces of the Logitech setup too.  Think about your speaker setup more as a long term enjoyment kind of thing.  You don't replace speakers every build if you have good ones.  You keep them for years and years.

 

The important thing to start off with is a good signal, whether its analogue or digital, doesn't matter.  To figure out what type of signal you need, you need an amp.  Choose one with however many channels you're wanting (good stereo will beat bad 5.1 anyday for sound quality).  Feed it the appropriate signal.  From there, its time to look at speakers and subs.  Again, you can piece together bits from your z5500's to make that happen, so I'd start at sub first if you're looking for "thump".  And again, a good base model home theater receiver would be an easy way to step into that area since even just adding a proper sub, its still going to need the right frequencies.

As is, you're making middle school me jealous.  Heck, even adult me kinda wants to take a critical listen again to the Logitech setups since its been 10 years since I've heard them lol.

Edited February 11, 2022 by pioneerisloud

[Storm-Chaser]

 

8 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

As is, you're making middle school me jealous.  Heck, even adult me kinda wants to take a critical listen again to the Logitech setups since its been 10 years since I've heard them lol.

Here you go...

 

Sorry about the shaky camera, I've been chopping wood all morning and my wrists are feelin it. 

 

This one you should be able to turn up a little bit. Comes through very crisp and clear on this side. There is a little distortion of the sub at the end of the video, but that's a simple EQ adjustment. 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Storm-Chaser

[Storm-Chaser]

7 hours ago, pioneerisloud said:

As I said before though, if you're happy with it, that's what matters.  If you're after advice?  Get rid of the Logitech and step into some real speakers. 

Oh yeah no doubt and that's really the basic idea here. I'm just getting my feet wet and then probably doing a custom system once I feel confident. And build my own subwoofer enclosure. With everything you guys are telling me, that should be a fairly straightforward process in the quest for better audio once I do some "sound" research (pun intended). So I have a year to get all my ducks in a row. 

 

Meanwhile, I will enjoy the logitech because as much as you are kinda knocking it, the sound quality is very good once you dial in the EQ as demonstrated by the second video. Also note, you can turn the volume up to it's highest setting (with 20db pre-amp gain to boot) and the speakers remain crisp and there is no distortion. That's one thing I was looking for because I usually play music with the volume cranked. 
 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Storm-Chaser

[Storm-Chaser]

Okay a couple more just for kicks (pun intended)

 

This one is especially demonstrative of the power of this system...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Storm-Chaser

[Alex]

There's a lot to go through in this thread but I want to add some key points:

1. Sound cards are useless these days, go stand-alone DAC, Amp or DAC+Amp.
2. Schiit has been behind the curve for awhile, they are overpriced and have poor quality and QC. They are making strides in fixing this but for now avoid them. Go for something from Topping (DX3 Pro is very, very good if you want SE out and don't care about balanced) or SMSL.
3. EQ Apo is great, but use the Peace GUI for it as it makes it a much easier to use tool.
4. Not to gate-keep or anything but the Z-5500 is really not great. If I were to off the top of my head build out a quick 2.1 budget system it would be:

• Subwoofer: Elac SUB1010 or Dayton Audio SUB-1500
• Speakers: KEF Q150
• Receiver: Onkyo TX-8220 or something second hand from Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. Usually people off-load these really cheap second-hand.

[Storm-Chaser]

6 hours ago, Alex said:

There's a lot to go through in this thread but I want to add some key points:

1. Sound cards are useless these days, go stand-alone DAC, Amp or DAC+Amp.
2. Schiit has been behind the curve for awhile, they are overpriced and have poor quality and QC. They are making strides in fixing this but for now avoid them. Go for something from Topping (DX3 Pro is very, very good if you want SE out and don't care about balanced) or SMSL.
3. EQ Apo is great, but use the Peace GUI for it as it makes it a much easier to use tool.
4. Not to gate-keep or anything but the Z-5500 is really not great. If I were to off the top of my head build out a quick 2.1 budget system it would be:

• Subwoofer: Elac SUB1010 or Dayton Audio SUB-1500
• Speakers: KEF Q150
• Receiver: Onkyo TX-8220 or something second hand from Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. Usually people off-load these really cheap second-hand.

Thanks for the tips. So the optical cable arrived today and since I'm using two sound systems in this project, it looks less and less likely I will be able to use the digital source. Reason being, I need the analog output on the z5500 so I can use my Z625 with it. I can only pair the two through the analog connection. When I connect optical, I lose analog. And the inverse proportion to that, I can only enable one output at a time from the computer (so I cant have digital going to one sound system and analog to the other). 

 

I suppose if they make an optical splitter, I could go that route? Is that even possible? I mean the sound is great as it is so I am not really losing much but Id still prefer digital.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Storm-Chaser

[pio]

32 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Thanks for the tips. So the optical cable arrived today and since I'm using two sound systems in this project, it looks less and less likely I will be able to use the digital source. Reason being, I need the analog output on the z5500 so I can use my Z625 with it. I can only pair the two through the analog connection. When I connect optical, I lose analog. And the inversely proportion to that, I can only enable one output at a time from the computer (so I cant have digital going to one sound system and analog to the other). 

 

I suppose if they make an optical splitter, I could go that route? Is that even possible? I mean the sound is great as it is so I am not really losing much but Id still prefer digital.

You might get better sound out of just the z5500's honestly.  Might be worth a try to use optical to them, and actually place the speakers properly.  Subwoofer in a well insulated corner, preferably your "hot zone".  Speakers placed properly around you.  If you can't properly utilize the 5.1 with proper placement, you'll be much better off with a better 2.1 set.

[Storm-Chaser]

5 hours ago, Alex said:

There's a lot to go through in this thread but I want to add some key points:

1. Sound cards are useless these days, go stand-alone DAC, Amp or DAC+Amp.
2. Schiit has been behind the curve for awhile, they are overpriced and have poor quality and QC. They are making strides in fixing this but for now avoid them. Go for something from Topping (DX3 Pro is very, very good if you want SE out and don't care about balanced) or SMSL.
3. EQ Apo is great, but use the Peace GUI for it as it makes it a much easier to use tool.
4. Not to gate-keep or anything but the Z-5500 is really not great. If I were to off the top of my head build out a quick 2.1 budget system it would be:

• Subwoofer: Elac SUB1010 or Dayton Audio SUB-1500
• Speakers: KEF Q150
• Receiver: Onkyo TX-8220 or something second hand from Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. Usually people off-load these really cheap second-hand.

Yeah after the last couple days of using it I am not very impressed. It's marginally better than my z625, which only has two speakers. The subwoofer on the z625 also kicks harder, but to be honest both systems complement each other very well. So I can live with it for now. One advantage to the z5500 is you can push the speakers much harder without distortion, and the sub does better down low and that's a good thing. And brings me to my next question. Can you or @pioneerisloudrespond.

 

Given the z5500 has some trade offs, but both systems work well together, Im probably going to keep everything around for a year or so. But I still don't mind investing a little more money into this project.

 

Now that being said my complaints / comments are:

The 10" 188W sub on the z5500 doesn't have the punch of my other woofer, yet it's almost twice as big. For the super low tones it does to better, however. So I need to know how I can take advantage (exploit) the performance of the bigger 10" subwoofer because I can tell there is a lot more that Logitech left on the table. For example, the range of the subwoofer on the z625 is much wider than the z-5500. So you can have the volume relatively low and still here it thump. Versus the Z-5500, where you can get there with the sub, but the volume is going to have to be pretty loud as well which kind of pisses me off that they overlooked something so elementary. It's more "couped" up in my opinion. I think it could easily be pushed much harder, I just don't have the knowhow or the knowledge yet. Basically, I need a better way to "uncouple" the subwoofer so it can be boosted. 

 

So here is a list:

1) Better performance / more control over the z5500 subwoofer.

2) I suitable amp to boost performance (should I get two amps, one for the speakers and one for the subs?)

3) Anything else you guys can think of. 

4) After reading @pioneerisloudresponse I will not be using the third subwoofer. That will be re-purposed. 

 

 

[Storm-Chaser]

25 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

You might get better sound out of just the z5500's honestly.  Might be worth a try to use optical to them, and actually place the speakers properly.  Subwoofer in a well insulated corner, preferably your "hot zone".  Speakers placed properly around you.  If you can't properly utilize the 5.1 with proper placement, you'll be much better off with a better 2.1 set.

I know, I don't have the speakers set up yet, I still need to mount them on the wall. I have them pointed away because it can get too loud lol

 

 

[Storm-Chaser]

38 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

You might get better sound out of just the z5500's honestly. 

I did some testing earlier to see about that, but both systems really do complement each other quite well. It's definitely a better and more immersive experience with the full seven speakers and two subs.

 

I get more thump out of the z625, but the z5500 sub has it's place as well down load or from the second floor. It's like rolling thunder, and the z625 is more like lightning. You can push the speakers harder on the z5500, but not by much. 

 

I think I might go with one of these so I can run both via digital interface. Only $20

Edited February 12, 2022 by Storm-Chaser

[pio]

11 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

Yeah after the last couple days of using it I am not very impressed. It's marginally better than my z625, which only has two speakers. The subwoofer on the z625 also kicks harder, but to be honest both systems complement each other very well. So I can live with it for now. One advantage to the z5500 is you can push the speakers much harder without distortion, and the sub does better down low and that's a good thing. And brings me to my next question. Can you or @pioneerisloudrespond.

 

Given the z5500 has some trade offs, but both systems work well together, Im probably going to keep everything around for a year or so. But I still don't mind investing a little more money into this project.

 

Now that being said my complaints / comments are:

The 10" 188W sub on the z5500 doesn't have the punch of my other woofer, yet it's almost twice as big. For the super low tones it does to better, however. So I need to know how I can take advantage (exploit) the performance of the bigger 10" subwoofer because I can tell there is a lot more that Logitech left on the table. For example, the range of the subwoofer on the z625 is much wider than the z-5500. So you can have the volume relatively low and still here it thump. Versus the Z-5500, where you can get there with the sub, but the volume is going to have to be pretty loud as well which kind of pisses me off that they overlooked something so elementary. It's more "couped" up in my opinion. I think it could easily be pushed much harder, I just don't have the knowhow or the knowledge yet. Basically, I need a better way to "uncouple" the subwoofer so it can be boosted. 

 

So here is a list:

1) Better performance / more control over the z5500 subwoofer.

2) I suitable amp to boost performance (should I get two amps, one for the speakers and one for the subs?)

3) Anything else you guys can think of. 

4) After reading @pioneerisloudresponse I will not be using the third subwoofer. That will be re-purposed. 

 

 

1.  You want better control over the subwoofer you'll have to change the amplifier. All sub controls are usually tied to the amp. Some are in the receiver or speaker amp / dac, but 90% of sub controls are on the sub amp. The z5500 doesn't have those controls on the stock amp. I would NOT recommend a new amp, instead I'd look at a proper sub. The z5500 doesn't extend very low to begin with. Changing amps will not fix the enclosure tuning. 

 

2.  Make it easy on yourself and look at home theater receivers. Unless you have limited space, a receiver is the best bang for buck. Good dac, possible surround sound or 2.1 just depends on the amount of speakers you have, crossover controls, and good speaker power output. All in one package. If you have limited space and require a t amp we can figure that out too. 

 

3.  Nope. I'd start at a receiver plus a proper sub and go from there. 

 

4.  The reason the z625 sounds different is room placement and enclosure tuning. If it's tuned higher, which it is, it will sound louder at higher frequency than the one that's tuned lower since it's tuned higher. Your tuning frequency is where the sub sounds loudest at with same volume (most of the time). The z5500 needs a higher gain to get the 60hz range of the z625 set. Neither set is really proper since a sub should be 30hz or lower (lower the better) and upwards of 80-120hz on the high end. All those frequencies SHOULD be similar volume, but they're not in your instance. It's a fault of keeping the system stupid simple for gamers. A real sub fixes that. 

[pio]

10 minutes ago, Storm-Chaser said:

I did some testing earlier to see about that, but both systems really do complement each other quite well. It's definitely a better and more immersive experience with the full seven speakers and two subs.

 

I get more thump out of the z625, but the z5500 sub has it's place as well down load or from the second floor. It's like rolling thunder, and the z625 is more like lightning. You can push the speakers harder on the z5500, but not by much. 

 

I think I might go with one of these so I can run both via digital interface. Only $20

This should do what you are wanting yes. It's not going to fix any inadequacies of the systems, but it will allow both to operate at the same time. 

 

Again, I would not dump too much money into these setups. They're not worth it when a Dayton set up beats the snot out of them for $200-250 or so. Keep in mind that budget speakers, amps, and subwoofers do exist. They will beat the z5500 set in every way. Not trying to be mean about it, just honest. 

[Storm-Chaser]

Alright. 

 

So I can sell my Z625 sub and my z5500 sub and probably make back $150 or something like that. 

And retain the small speakers though? Do they have any redeeming value in a new custom system?

 

That sounds like more fun anyway, and I will be able to customize it exactly to my needs / specifications.