X3D Revision 2

[neurotix]

17 minutes ago, Nikado7 said:

 

I believe you can get those free at microcenter if you buy a cpu?   You might check into that maybe someone or even me could help you out.  I didn't do it cause I know it would just be a kit sitting in my mountain of other computer parts.  

 

Yeah same ones.  https://www.microcenter.com/product/653727/gskill-flare-x5-series-32gb-(2-x-16gb)-ddr5-6000-pc5-48000-cl36-dual-channel-desktop-memory-kit-f5-6000j3636f16gx2-fx5-black

 

Didn't know that, but yeah picked them anyway because of how good my similar DDR4 has been. Single rank B-Die. So just wondering about what dies are on the kit I have for my X3D build.

 

Also can anyone recommend an Asus board, not white, without a giant heatsink on the top VRMs? Full size ATX.

[Fluxmaven]

I have one of those kits. I can grab the Thaiphoon Burner info if you're interested. When I bought the 7700X back in November it came with a 6000CL30 kit, but the 7900X I bought last month came with that 6000CL36 kit. 

[Nikado7]

9 hours ago, Fluxmaven said:

I have one of those kits. I can grab the Thaiphoon Burner info if you're interested. When I bought the 7700X back in November it came with a 6000CL30 kit, but the 7900X I bought last month came with that 6000CL36 kit. 

 

Never knew about that software.  Really cool.

[neurotix]

Yeah Flux if you don't mind pming me the Thaiphoon Burner info for that kit I'd like to see it. Thanks 

[Nikado7]

Think I'll just keep the 7950x.  Seems like a lot of money to match a 13900k which only costs $580.   

[neurotix]

Yep. The Intel's were sandbagged at 6000MHz RAM too, right?

[Nikado7]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

Yep. The Intel's were sandbagged at 6000MHz RAM too, right?

 

Looking that way.  So Intel prolly matches it if anything.  Such a letdown.   

[neurotix]

I heard that the AMD review guidelines told reviewers to run the Intel's memory at 6000MHz, when people are running 7200MHz and benchers are running 7800MHz and in some cases 8000MHz. Which Ryzen can't do. So they sandbagged the Intel. A 13900k is faster, especially with high memory speeds.

[Nikado7]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

I heard that the AMD review guidelines told reviewers to run the Intel's memory at 6000MHz, when people are running 7200MHz and benchers are running 7800MHz and in some cases 8000MHz. Which Ryzen can't do. So they sandbagged the Intel. A 13900k is faster, especially with high memory speeds.

 

Did you notice no 7900x3d reviews either...   I love that AMD is trying to be different and give us the best of both worlds but they've been able to use 13900k's themselves for months, they know we were gonna figure it out an hour after launch.   Just don't understand their mindset.   It would be the CPU to have if it was $500.  They know 13900k current prices I mean come on.  

[neurotix]

Haven't followed prices on the 13900k. Last I knew it was $599 or $699 if I'm remembering correctly. What are they going for?

[neurotix]

Hey also are you going to scrap the build and return your parts, or get one anyway? Or maybe get a 7950X instead?

[Nikado7]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

Haven't followed prices on the 13900k. Last I knew it was $599 or $699 if I'm remembering correctly. What are they going for?

 

Microcenter has 13900K for $530.  Minus $20 if you also buy a board from them. 

 

45 minutes ago, neurotix said:

Hey also are you going to scrap the build and return your parts, or get one anyway? Or maybe get a 7950X instead?

 

Well I bought (received today) a 7950X in case the X3D was crap and low and behold....so I will go ahead with it.  I really don't like the E/P core approach nor do I like this X3D arrangement of 2 sides to the cpu which seems to be quite complex to make sure it works right in comparison to just dropping a cpu in the socket.  So 7950x has the normal style and I'll roll with it.   They will update AM5 a few times so nothing says round 2 won't be better.  

 

I love my 5800X3D to the point I'm basically leaving that computer alone.  I should just sell it but damn that thing runs smooth.  If 7800X3D is anything like it, they'll have a clear winner.  

 

Definintely some shady stuff going on though.  I'll be doing some tests of my own on my 5800 before swapping my 3080ti over and running the same tests.  I just started playing COD MW2 and it seems to love x3d so hopefully it at least maintains the same FPS.  

 

I noticed they all benched the same games too...  kinda.... strange......  In the end the decision will always lie with the games YOU actually play.  Course they didn't do any kind of COD benchmarks.  

[Nikado7]

Found a bnib 7950x for $400.   Sent mine back for refund.  Got a direct die mount and delidder coming. 

[ENTERPRISE]

36 minutes ago, Nikado7 said:

Found a bnib 7950x for $400.   Sent mine back for refund.  Got a direct die mount and delidder coming. 

Not a bad price! I don't think you will have any remorse. Looking at the benches of the 7950X3D, while it does take a lead in some titles, the cost disparity isn't worth it to be honest. 

 

While the 3D counterparts will always be more expensive, I would like to see future versions with the cache balanced over both dies to avoid the latency penalty of the non cache core accessing the cache on the other die. Plus by that point they may have also found a way to mitigate the clock speed penalties associated with having 3D cache.

[Sir Beregond]

2 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

Not a bad price! I don't think you will have any remorse. Looking at the benches of the 7950X3D, while it does take a lead in some titles, the cost disparity isn't worth it to be honest. 

 

While the 3D counterparts will always be more expensive, I would like to see future versions with the cache balanced over both dies to avoid the latency penalty of the non cache core accessing the cache on the other die. Plus by that point they may have also found a way to mitigate the clock speed penalties associated with having 3D cache.

I just really don't get the 7950X3D as a part. The 16-core parts really never represented gaming chips and were always more productivity focused so it makes this weird hybrid of one 8-core traditional CCD and one 8-core v-cache CCD a really odd one to me. Seems you sacrifice some of the productivity angle with it, but also the gaming doesn't necessarily get any more of a boost than what the 7800X3D might end up being.

[neurotix]

It's a shame how much of a letdown this has been.

 

Do you guys think I would benefit in gaming from upgrading to a 7900x, G.skill DDR5-6000, and a Crosshair X670-E Hero? I'd also need to replace my Arctic Liquid Freezer II with an H150 to be able to fit the board. But I have the money. I really feel like the 5900x in Ai Crystal is holding back/bottlenecking my RTX 4090.

 

I game at 3440x1440, 144 Hz. I think the resolution is high enough that CPU might not matter, but the framerate thing might need a faster CPU.

 

If you think it'd just be a waste of money and effort for no gain, then let me know. (edit: psst I just really want that mobo in my build lol)

Edited March 2, 2023 by neurotix

[Sir Beregond]

9 minutes ago, neurotix said:

It's a shame how much of a letdown this has been.

 

Do you guys think I would benefit in gaming from upgrading to a 7900x, G.skill DDR5-6000, and a Crosshair X670-E Hero? I'd also need to replace my Arctic Liquid Freezer II with an H150 to be able to fit the board. But I have the money. I really feel like the 5900x in Ai Crystal is holding back/bottlenecking my RTX 4090.

 

I game at 3440x1440, 144 Hz. I think the resolution is high enough that CPU might not matter, but the framerate thing might need a faster CPU.

 

If you think it'd just be a waste of money and effort for no gain, then let me know.

 

That's a bit more than half the pixel count of 4k (3440x2160) still. I'd imagine you'd still have some CPU bottlenecks with the 5900X and the 4090, but it probably really depends on what you play and if you care about chart topping for HWBot and such. Otherwise I'd say it's probably fine unless you play stuff that is noticeably bottlenecked.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Sir Beregond

[Nikado7]

10 minutes ago, neurotix said:

It's a shame how much of a letdown this has been.

 

Do you guys think I would benefit in gaming from upgrading to a 7900x, G.skill DDR5-6000, and a Crosshair X670-E Hero? I'd also need to replace my Arctic Liquid Freezer II with an H150 to be able to fit the board. But I have the money. I really feel like the 5900x in Ai Crystal is holding back/bottlenecking my RTX 4090.

 

I game at 3440x1440, 144 Hz. I think the resolution is high enough that CPU might not matter, but the framerate thing might need a faster CPU.

 

If you think it'd just be a waste of money and effort for no gain, then let me know. (edit: psst I just really want that mobo in my build lol)

 

I actually was comparing COD MW2 scores with gamersnexus scores (maybe HWUB idk) and I was seeing 20fps less than them on ultra, but the same as them on basic.  1440p..   Everything was the same cept they had 13900k.  So to me there would be a gain going to 7000/13th gen as they have a little more clock speed which is what I'm guessing is the difference, possibly DDR5 as well.  Either way I do think think you'd see an improvement if you run higher quality settings.  

[neurotix]

Dunno if I'll do it or not, but yeah the higher boost speed plus DDR5 might help. EDIT: I don't play games much and yes I care a lot about better bench scores on HWBOT as I am in the top 100 in the US and top 100 in the Enthusiast league. I play Forza Horizon 4 and 5 and I haven't tested/benchmarked 5 on the Extreme preset, but on Ultra I get 162 fps or so in the ingame benchmark and I only have 70% GPU load doing so. All the rest if my games are older, I need to play ROTTR and that would run fine on like a 7970 and an old 4 core i7.

Edited March 2, 2023 by neurotix

[bonami2]

@neurotix I would wait for next gen if i was you so they can fix their 3dcache thing. We see no benchmark of overclocked 13600k or 13700k and i wonder why. They probably get very close to the 7950x3d or future 7800x3d.

 

Only reason i upgraded from 12700k to 13900k is core count. Because beam ng render car on thread.  5900x is pretty fast 

[J7SC_Orion]

7 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

I just really don't get the 7950X3D as a part. The 16-core parts really never represented gaming chips and were always more productivity focused so it makes this weird hybrid of one 8-core traditional CCD and one 8-core v-cache CCD a really odd one to me. Seems you sacrifice some of the productivity angle with it, but also the gaming doesn't necessarily get any more of a boost than what the 7800X3D might end up being.

 

6 hours ago, bonami2 said:

@neurotix I would wait for next gen if i was you so they can fix their 3dcache thing. We see no benchmark of overclocked 13600k or 13700k and i wonder why. They probably get very close to the 7950x3d or future 7800x3d.

 

Only reason i upgraded from 12700k to 13900k is core count. Because beam ng render car on thread.  5900x is pretty fast 

 

...vive la différence, as the French say    

 

IMO, the 7950X3D is an absolutely brilliant part, at least for my use-cases - but that is also the point: If you like a 7950X or a 7800X3D or a 13900KS or 13700, there are all kinds of choices which can fit the individual's tastes, budget and use cases. I use these things for both productivity and gaming and for the latter, the games I do spent the most time on use less than 8 cores and also do like lots of cache, so the choice of chiplets management etc. suits me.

 

Per > this and > that, the 7950X3D holds a lot of oc potential and I will likely get one in a little while once other parts I want are available. No rush though as the 5950X I have (spoiler) combined with very fast DDR4 RAM certainly manages to hold its own in 4K gaming - even though the 4090 (and presumably subsequent top end GPU models) can start to experience a bottleneck at 4K via CPUs - but that usually happens well beyond the 4K 120 OLED max anyway, so it matters little for now.

Spoiler

 

I actually would have liked to see a symmetric 16 core top-end X3D model as well (not instead of but in addition to the 7950X3D) for some applications, but as I said, tons of choice. I just like to keep an eye on future upgrade paths and such for mobos / chipsets and also have a power budget due to multiple machines running 24/7 (never mind that 671+W RTX 4090 ) so the 7950X3D is 'on my list' as I never got into LG1700 or the initial AM5 releases.

 

 

 

 

[Nikado7]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

 

...vive la différence, as the French say    

 

IMO, the 7950X3D is an absolutely brilliant part, at least for my use-cases - but that is also the point: If you like a 7950X or a 7800X3D or a 13900KS or 13700, there are all kinds of choices which can fit the individual's tastes, budget and use cases. I use these things for both productivity and gaming and for the latter, the games I do spent the most time on use less than 8 cores and also do like lots of cache, so the choice of chiplets management etc. suits me.

 

Per > this and > that, the 7950X3D holds a lot of oc potential and I will likely get one in a little while once other parts I want are available. No rush though as the 5950X I have (spoiler) combined with very fast DDR4 RAM certainly manages to hold its own in 4K gaming - even though the 4090 (and presumably subsequent top end GPU models) can start to experience a bottleneck at 4K via CPUs - but that usually happens well beyond the 4K 120 OLED max anyway, so it matters little for now.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I actually would have liked to see a symmetric 16 core top-end X3D model as well (not instead of but in addition to the 7950X3D) for some applications, but as I said, tons of choice. I just like to keep an eye on future upgrade paths and such for mobos / chipsets and also have a power budget due to multiple machines running 24/7 (never mind that 671+W RTX 4090 ) so the 7950X3D is 'on my list' as I never got into LG1700 or the initial AM5 releases.

 

 

 

 

 

I am all for the best of both worlds mentality AMD is going for and obviously gaming benchmarks prove it is technically working.  Being the first of it's kind there will be growing pains and the software crap xbox bar crap to make it work.  It's all understood they have to do it that way when nothing is set up for it.  Just like windows doesn't understand RGB (yet) so you have to install a million programs to get the lights on the ram, board, case, etc to all sync up.  

 

If cost is no object then its a clear winner.  No doubt about that.  Otherwise, quite a lot to be desired.  Of course the games do dictate that, I can't believe the ability even the 5800X3d has with FS.  The 7800X3D will sell out like hot cakes for months.  The 13900K heat output is definitely an issue for people who don't have the cooling to deal with that.  

 

I guess the main issue with all of this is they promised big and undelivered.  Sure they all promise big and undeliver, nothing new, but after the 5800x3d I think we all just expected an x3d with so much power to really knock the socks off intel.  Course it does in power efficiency.   All just a mixture of pros and cons.  

 

[J7SC_Orion]

18 minutes ago, Nikado7 said:

 

I am all for the best of both worlds mentality AMD is going for and obviously gaming benchmarks prove it is technically working.  Being the first of it's kind there will be growing pains and the software crap xbox bar crap to make it work.  It's all understood they have to do it that way when nothing is set up for it.  Just like windows doesn't understand RGB (yet) so you have to install a million programs to get the lights on the ram, board, case, etc to all sync up.  

 

If cost is no object then its a clear winner.  No doubt about that.  Otherwise, quite a lot to be desired.  Of course the games do dictate that, I can't believe the ability even the 5800X3d has with FS.  The 7800X3D will sell out like hot cakes for months.  The 13900K heat output is definitely an issue for people who don't have the cooling to deal with that.  

 

I guess the main issue with all of this is they promised big and undelivered.  Sure they all promise big and undeliver, nothing new, but after the 5800x3d I think we all just expected an x3d with so much power to really knock the socks off intel.  Course it does in power efficiency.   All just a mixture of pros and cons.  

 

   

Yeah, depending on the very specific use cases, the 7950X3D can either be a great / or not so great choice. One thing seems to be clear though - asymmetric CPU design (I include Intel's P+E cores in that) are likely here to stay for the desktop...for now, HEDT is another matter.

[Fluxmaven]

Wish I had noticed that delid tools were available. I see PPCS has them in stock and I could have tossed one in on my order that should be here tomorrow. 

 

I'm excited to see how things go with the higher core count X3D parts. I don't feel the need to pay the early adopter tax though. 

 

The power efficiency is definitely a big win for me. We have a lot machines running in the house. Custom loops manage to keep the PCs happy but the heat still gets dumped into the room. I don't like living in a sauna. I don't mind loosing a tiny bit of performance for lower overall power consumption. 

[Sir Beregond]

53 minutes ago, Fluxmaven said:

The power efficiency is definitely a big win for me. We have a lot machines running in the house. Custom loops manage to keep the PCs happy but the heat still gets dumped into the room. I don't like living in a sauna. I don't mind loosing a tiny bit of performance for lower overall power consumption. 

This right here. One of my frustrations with the 3080 Ti.