Radeon Instinct MI25 16GB HBM2

[LabRat]

4 minutes ago, Lifted said:

So, you are on the quest too! HAHA!  
Awesome

I just confirmed by checking that Accelero cooler is 60mm at the largest hole position from screw to screw. So, it is not compatible with Vega 64, if MI25 matches the hole spacing it will be incompatible too. After we confirm ;- )

You are correct on the fact that Morpheus II Core does fit Vega 64, and indeed it is more expensive than MI25, if you can find one. Since they are discontinued, as far as I know.

I remember looking at it years ago when I was looking to cool some parts.

I thought so too but...

Amazon has it *from* Raijintek.

https://www.amazon.com/RAIJINTEK-Morpheus-Heat-Pipe-Heat-Sink-Options/dp/B00R6YQYQ2

Raijintek also still lists the cooler. 

RAIJINTEK

WWW.RAIJINTEK.COM

---

Raijintek provides the products - high compatibility, extreme engineering, remarkable performance, amazing design, necessity of demand and multifunctional usage – for high recommendation...

 

[Lifted]

54 minutes ago, LabRat said:

I thought so too but...

Amazon has it *from* Raijintek.

https://www.amazon.com/RAIJINTEK-Morpheus-Heat-Pipe-Heat-Sink-Options/dp/B00R6YQYQ2

Raijintek also still lists the cooler. 

RAIJINTEK

WWW.RAIJINTEK.COM

---

Raijintek provides the products - high compatibility, extreme engineering, remarkable performance, amazing design, necessity of demand and multifunctional usage – for high recommendation...

 

Dope! But over 80 bucks lol. 
At that point perhaps we should be going for RTX 3000/2000 series of GTX 1000 series.

At this point, perhaps NVIDIA Tesla P40 sounds like a better option, as it hovers around 200 bucks. 

At some cases you can find AMD Vega 64 at about 200 bucks if you are lucky. 
Arctic lost so much money not modding that plate past RTX 2000 series

I just checked GTX 1080 cooler that I have is closer at 61.2 mm, but still off by 2.8mm or so
 

[Lifted]

1 hour ago, LabRat said:

I thought so too but...

Amazon has it *from* Raijintek.

https://www.amazon.com/RAIJINTEK-Morpheus-Heat-Pipe-Heat-Sink-Options/dp/B00R6YQYQ2

Raijintek also still lists the cooler. 

RAIJINTEK

WWW.RAIJINTEK.COM

---

Raijintek provides the products - high compatibility, extreme engineering, remarkable performance, amazing design, necessity of demand and multifunctional usage – for high recommendation...

 

1 hour ago, LabRat said:

Good idea.

I did manage to non-physically verify that is the mount via both Aliexpress listings for coolers, and old Reddit Posts.

I too, have been on a quest to try and find an affordable air cooler that'll fit my MI25 -> WX9100.

I've almost bought 3 'for parts' Vega/Fury 'partner' cards that came w/ better coolers. Sadly, many completely delete the frontplate and have too big of a coldplate to just mount-on unmodified.
I want to keep the frontplate for VRM and board-component cooling, and I don't want to have to dismount it (potentially, ruining thermal pads).

 

So far, the 'best' option is just 'eating it' and buying a Morpheus II Core off Amazon. Unfortunately, that costs more than the card did...

 

I got a wild idea, if hole spacing is 64x64mm then you can buy 6800xt or 6900xt/6800xt shroud and fan, and boom.

But finding just a shroud by itself can be difficult from what I am looking at on Ebay
 

[LabRat]

20 minutes ago, Lifted said:

 

I got a wild idea, if hole spacing is 64x64mm then you can buy 6800xt or 6900xt/6800xt shroud and fan, and boom.

But finding just a shroud by itself can be difficult from what I am looking at on Ebay
 

I was wondering if anyone else would 'think this direction'.

However in (my) doing so, I stumbled upon something that really deserves its own thread...

 

Between model-series and brand (on a given 'GPU SKU'), cooler mounts differ.
Go onto Aliexpress, and start looking up GPU coolers for those cards; you'll find multiple different mounting patterns. At least 1 'type' is 65x65mm. "close", but not close enough.
If it wasn't for the fact that the 'threaded part' is in the cooler, you could just take a drillbit and 'worble-out' the hole a mm.

 

I know it's a bit 'tinfoil hat', but I can't help but feel that's related to Board Partners classifying such specs as 'confidential'. I'd say I've observed purposeful non-intercompatibility 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by LabRat

[pio]

I'm not sure if it'll help in your fella's quest here, but I have on hand a Vega64 I could measure.  I do believe @LabRat has the same card too though.

[Lifted]

43 minutes ago, LabRat said:

I was wondering if anyone else would 'think this direction'.

However in (my) doing so, I stumbled upon something that really deserves its own thread...

 

Between model-series and brand (on a given 'GPU SKU'), cooler mounts differ.
Go onto Aliexpress, and start looking up GPU coolers for those cards; you'll find multiple different mounting patterns. At least 1 'type' is 65x65mm. "close", but not close enough.
If it wasn't for the fact that the 'threaded part' is in the cooler, you could just take a drillbit and 'worble-out' the hole a mm.

 

I know it's a bit 'tinfoil hat', but I can't help but feel that's related to Board Partners classifying such specs as 'confidential'. I'd say I've observed purposeful non-intercompatibility 

For sure, this is why you need to contact these board partners directly through email or phone.

I essentially was going to do that next for that exact reason. BUT...they still need to meet water block requirements, because then people will kick up dust in anger, because their EK block doesn't match what is specified.

Most companies will try to keep the standard, but as you said, if it is not a threaded type of connection, then it should be fine.

I would check original GPU review and see how back of the unit is attached. Whether it is a straight through design, or screw in like LGA 2011-3 socket for CPUs.

Good points, and looking at Ebay they want an arm and a leg for GPU shrouds.
At which point buying Vega 64 or GTX 1080ti is a better option.

Oddly enough though, I can't find much shrouds under 80 bucks. 
I did find a blower type VEGA 64 for $110, if you want one. It is criminally loud though

Probably came out of those mining labs, according to amounts they sell
 

AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 8GB Graphics Processing Unit | 2-3 Day Shipping!

WWW.EBAY.COM

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Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 8GB Graphics Processing Unit | 2-3 Day Shipping! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

To your point too, this guy here did mod some things with a knife. 

Considering these parts are copper you can shave couple of mms with it

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Lifted

[damric]

@LabRat I linked @Lifted to your TPU thread where I got all my knowledge of this project.

 

LIfted those dimensions that LabRat gave you are the right ones. 

 

If either of you want to purchase my card with the waterblock mod, let me know. I'm trying to downsize a bunch of stuff. The MI25 was a very fun project but I feel like I wouldn't miss it since it's been sitting on shelf for 3 months now. I also have the 3D printed adapter for 120mm fan through heat sink.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by damric

[LabRat]

  

On 16/05/2023 at 13:36, damric said:

This card allows only very minimal tuning and follows a rather strict power envelope curve. But that said, I was able to somewhat tune clocks and power limits using overdriventool, and I was able to apply offset voltages using an old version of Sapphire Trixx.

 

I tuned a folding@home profile for efficiency, and at 100W I am still pulling over 800K on project 18717. So 80% of the performance at half the power is good to me. I might be able to drop a few more millivolts, but that's going to need some long term testing.

 

I stuck a fan on the backside of the card over the VRM and socket area, so that might help some when I tune for HWBOT next week.

In investigating trying to get 'AMD PRO' features all-around, I stumbled into an awesome fix for that problem

Amernime Zone - Browse /Release Polaris-Vega-Navi at SourceForge.net

SOURCEFORGE.NET

---

Unique AMD WHQL Driver Tweaking Project

  

3 hours ago, Lifted said:

I just confirmed by checking that Accelero cooler is 60mm at the largest hole position from screw to screw. So, it is not compatible with Vega 64, if MI25 matches the hole spacing it will be incompatible too. After we confirm ;- )

That's a bummer, but that was actually (specifically) a question I'd been looking for answer on: What's the largest mount on the factory Accelero brackets?
But, that's not the end for trying to mount that behemoth to Vega.
the GPU mount-bracket is mounted to the Accelero itself w/ 2 screws, and the receiving threads are in the Accelero. Meaning, one could (fairly-easily) DIY-fabricate a mount w/ a Rotary Tool (Dremel) and other common power tools.
Just need to find some appropriate thickness scrap metal. Get creative and you (or a neighbor) may already have something that the material can be salvaged from.

 

 

1 hour ago, pioneerisloud said:

I'm not sure if it'll help in your fella's quest here, but I have on hand a Vega64 I could measure.  I do believe @LabRat has the same card too though.

 

My uhmmm 'homelab' is currently in a state of disabling disarray, otherwise: yes, I do have an 8GB V64 not currently in a machine (and calipers).
I don't want to mod or disassemble that reference card; it's fated for my Win7x64+Linux, K8N-DL, Dual 885s, 2x2x4GB ECC DDR, Optane NVMe build that was last 3/4 working (with all said parts) on my bench.

 

56 minutes ago, damric said:

@LabRat I linked @Lifted to your TPU thread where I got all my knowledge of this project.

 

LIfted those dimensions that LabRat gave you are the right ones. 

 

If either of you want to purchase my card with the waterblock mod, let me know. I'm trying to downsize a bunch of stuff. The MI25 was a very fun project but I feel like I wouldn't miss it since it's been sitting on shelf for 3 months now. I also have the 3D printed adapter for 120mm fan through heat sink.

 

@Lifted it's all yours if you want it.  
I want to aircool mine; specifically, for the indefinite longevity. My 16GB HBM2 Vega is a DD'er but, working collectable.

I really, probably, have an unhealthy fascination with HBM and other old high-bit-width cards.

(Also, I already have mod-able kit for an H115i AIO that I bought back w/ my last i7-3770k's rebuild. JIC)

Edited August 28, 2023 by LabRat

[damric]

Sorry I misplaced my good metric tape measure and had to use the fugly stanley

Photos-001.zip

 

Also this is the 120mm fan 3D printed adapter:

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by damric

[neurotix]

It's awesome the amount of knowledge in this thread. I never had a Vega 64 nor a Radeon Instinct MI25, but I did have dual R9 Fury Sapphire Nitros for a few years.

 

It's cool you guys are modding a workstation card to work and adding custom cooling to it.

 

Good luck in your endeavors and I hope you find a way to use the Accellero or some other solution.

Edited August 28, 2023 by neurotix

[neurotix]

Off topic but here's 2x Sapphire R9 290 Vapor-X and 2x Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X. I can't find a pic of dual R9 Fury, because all the photos documenting my old build (Big Red) have been removed from my OCN thread. But this is my small way of showing some AMD GPU love. ( The Vapor-X were amazing and the best cards I've ever owned)

[damric]

Hell yeah R9 Fury is still a very powerful folding@home card.

[pio]

1 minute ago, neurotix said:

Off topic but here's 2x Sapphire R9 290 Vapor-X and 2x Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X. I can't find a pic of dual R9 Fury, because all the photos documenting my old build (Big Red) have been removed from my OCN thread. But this is my small way of showing some AMD GPU love. ( The Vapor-X were amazing and the best cards I've ever owned)

Oof, is that Cooler Master v1000 the reason why those cards are no longer with you?  R.I.P.   

[neurotix]

2 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

Oof, is that Cooler Master v1000 the reason why those cards are no longer with you?  R.I.P.   

Lol, it was great and lasted 10 years and was a Seasonic unit. It ran them fine. You aren't ever going to let this one go man, are you?

 

I actually sold the Vapor-X 290s and got the R9 Fury's at a great discounted price, then went to 2x 1080ti ftw3, and now my 4090.

[damric]

@LabRat with the nime drivers were you able to boost power limit at all? The biggest problem I have with the MI25 is that it only wants to stay in the 1100-1200MHz clock range. I was able to push my Vega 56 to sustain over 1700MHz and a Vega 64 to just at 1800MHz (under water) with power play mods which was much more gratifying

[pio]

7 minutes ago, neurotix said:

Lol, it was great and lasted 10 years and was a Seasonic unit. It ran them fine. You aren't ever going to let this one go man, are you?

 

I actually sold the Vapor-X 290s and got the R9 Fury's at a great discounted price, then went to 2x 1080ti ftw3, and now my 4090.

  Just gotta keep you on your toes bro.  

Seriously though, those were some gorgeous cards.  I have one of those 290x Tri-X's myself, great cards.  I can never remember if that model was a Tri-X or Vapor-X, whatever, you know what I mean lol.

Edited August 28, 2023 by pioneerisloud

[LabRat]

17 minutes ago, damric said:

@LabRat with the nime drivers were you able to boost power limit at all? The biggest problem I have with the MI25 is that it only wants to stay in the 1100-1200MHz clock range. I was able to push my Vega 56 to sustain over 1700MHz and a Vega 64 to just at 1800MHz (under water) with power play mods which was much more gratifying

Yes. The 'trick' is using either OverdriveNtool (or Wattman) to 'emulate' the MI25's stock P-states up until the last few. Then, use wattman for the rest of your tweaking. (Edit/note: P-State mods are often ignored, especially 'oddball' clock and mV settings *until* you load the Zone drivers)

 

Not sure how to easily prove by screen shot, but (I'll try)
@ my 'gimped' 1400/1420 / 1100HBM, I can exceed the 'stock' WX 9100 limit w/ +50% power set in wattman. I've pushed 275w+ before, but hotspot and HBM temps kill my stability, even w/ maxfan (my ghettomod'd server blower cooling is attached to the card's fan header)
 

Edited August 28, 2023 by LabRat

[damric]

1 minute ago, LabRat said:

Yes.
Not sure how to easily prove by screen shot, but (I'll try)
@ my 'gimped' 1400/1420 / 1100HBM, I can exceed the 'stock' WX 9100 limit w/ +50% power set in wattman. I've pushed 275w+ before, but hotspot and HBM temps kill my stability, even w/ maxfan (my ghettomod'd server blower cooling is attached to the card's fan header)
 

Excellent. When the HWBOT team contest is over I'll have my bench free to mess with this card again. I wonder if power play table mods work as well to allow over +50%? I had my Vega 56 and 64 sliders unlocked to 150% which meant over 400W

[neurotix]

13 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

  Just gotta keep you on your toes bro.  

Seriously though, those were some gorgeous cards.  I have one of those 290x Tri-X's myself, great cards.  I can never remember if that model was a Tri-X or Vapor-X, whatever, you know what I mean lol.

Here's the Vapor-X:

 

 

Bigger cooler and a backplate on it. It's different from the Tri-X, but people get confused because it was released later in the lifespan of the 290 after everyone had already purchased the Tri-X. It's a great card, especially for collectors. Aside from the bigger cooler and backplate, it also had a RGB Sapphire logo that lights up and you could choose the color with the right version of Sapphire TriXX. You should get one.

 

Sorry for the interuption gentlemen. Continue with the MI25 discussion.

[LabRat]

8 minutes ago, damric said:

Excellent. When the HWBOT team contest is over I'll have my bench free to mess with this card again. I wonder if power play table mods work as well to allow over +50%? I had my Vega 56 and 64 sliders unlocked to 150% which meant over 400W

I haven't really tried much (due to aforementioned cooling limits), but I HAD gotten even more than +50% working by loading VegaFELC PPT.
Haven't tried it again since Zone drivers but, I have seen more than 300W out of my MI25; it will overheat in seconds (under load*)

*:

[pio]

1 minute ago, neurotix said:

Here's the Vapor-X:

 

 

Bigger cooler and a backplate on it. It's different from the Tri-X, but people get confused because it was released later in the lifespan of the 290 after everyone had already purchased the Tri-X. It's a great card, especially for collectors. Aside from the bigger cooler and backplate, it also had a RGB Sapphire logo that lights up and you could choose the color with the right version of Sapphire TriXX. You should get one.

 

Sorry for the interuption gentlemen. Continue with the MI25 discussion.

You're learning and retaining GPU history...... perfect......

 

 

I honestly did not know that.  Okay, cool, so I have Tri-X's.  I love learning about GPU history, always learning new things.   

[damric]

I'm guessing that with the 16GB of HBM that these MI25s might become popular again for cheap AI servers.

[LabRat]

40 minutes ago, damric said:

I'm guessing that with the 16GB of HBM that these MI25s might become popular again for cheap AI servers.

As you've found out w/ Vega's predecessor (Fiji), they're compute monsters. Which, is also why we only see HBM on 'CDNA' products. (-and are direct-descendants of Fiji - Vega10/20 - Navi12)
For rapid processing of memory transactions, HBM is fantastic. AI/MI and 'compute' seem to benefit much more than 3D Game Engines.

 

As @Lifted points out, for strictly (max price/perf) gaming, Vega(and Fiji) isn't(aren't) really a 'value'.  

Edited August 29, 2023 by LabRat

[Lifted]

9 hours ago, damric said:

@LabRat with the nime drivers were you able to boost power limit at all? The biggest problem I have with the MI25 is that it only wants to stay in the 1100-1200MHz clock range. I was able to push my Vega 56 to sustain over 1700MHz and a Vega 64 to just at 1800MHz (under water) with power play mods which was much more gratifying

9 hours ago, LabRat said:

Yes. The 'trick' is using either OverdriveNtool (or Wattman) to 'emulate' the MI25's stock P-states up until the last few. Then, use wattman for the rest of your tweaking. (Edit/note: P-State mods are often ignored, especially 'oddball' clock and mV settings *until* you load the Zone drivers)

 

Not sure how to easily prove by screen shot, but (I'll try)
@ my 'gimped' 1400/1420 / 1100HBM, I can exceed the 'stock' WX 9100 limit w/ +50% power set in wattman. I've pushed 275w+ before, but hotspot and HBM temps kill my stability, even w/ maxfan (my ghettomod'd server blower cooling is attached to the card's fan header)
 

 

Love it!

Making server grade GPUs new consumer gaming cards by tricking them, like Linus did with mining only GPU

The easiest way to tell how high you are clocking is by using MSI Afterburner and Riva Tuner Statistics that comes with it. If it doesn't, then install it separately. Then enabling overlay in MSI Afterburner and you should see the clocks right there on your screen. Like those gaming benchmarks

 

Another way is to use HWInfo64 (it's also free) and you can see how far you GPU/CPU and rest of the gear clocks up. Shows minimum, current, average, and maximum clocks and even power usages.

The GPU side of HWInfo64 is impressive. It is usually towards the bottom of the screen. When you boot it, select "Sensors Only" checkbox, and you will see it all
 

[Lifted]

On 27/08/2023 at 17:26, damric said:

@LabRat I linked @Lifted to your TPU thread where I got all my knowledge of this project.

 

LIfted those dimensions that LabRat gave you are the right ones. 

 

If either of you want to purchase my card with the waterblock mod, let me know. I'm trying to downsize a bunch of stuff. The MI25 was a very fun project but I feel like I wouldn't miss it since it's been sitting on shelf for 3 months now. I also have the 3D printed adapter for 120mm fan through heat sink.

 

 

 

Thank you for confirming

I am debating between this and GTX 1080ti/RTX 3070

How much would you want for it?

 

I probably won't need the water block, I simply don't run custom loops in my PC, since I move components too much.

But that fan adapter, I would love to see that. Would be nice to see what you came up with.