[Official] Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 Information & Discussion Thread

[Andrew]

The bush trip mode has been there since launch.

[UltraMega]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

The bush trip mode has been there since launch.

Hmm guess I missed that before. 

[ENTERPRISE]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:38 PM, J7SC_Orion said:

Welcome to some thoughts, tips and pics for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2020...Performance tips, real world system requirements for 4K Ultra / dense objects settings and SLI - CFR for 2x Nvidia RTS 208x  and 2x Titan RTX...

 

 

The moment this sim was officially released, I purchased the Premium Deluxe edition --- and then endured 2.5 days of incredible frustration as there was this 95GB 'patch' to download...MS Azure cloud servers were apparently not up to the task of matching this gorgeous' game and graphics...But that frustration turned into 'wow' as Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 ('MSFS 2020') has become my absolute favorite app... That said, Microsoft can still drive you crazy with 'patch updates NOW' in the multi-GB range, even if you you would rather do that later, at your own time. 

  

 

 

A few other negatives relate to maps. The one in the general menu where your choose your location becomes an inaccurate grey blob lacking identifying detail, while in the in-flight map (activated via the 'v' key) can sometimes drop the whole thing to the desktop.

 

But no matter what,  MS FS 2020 is a fantastic piece of enjoyment - I even find it quite practical, not just because I can actually see my kitchen  ... I reside in BC with lots of mountains, lakes, fjords and so forth and I can now explore beyond what I experienced on the ground in a 4x4 during many trips....I always wanted to know what was beyond the next ridge. And with the screen grab option (the 'windows' key + 'PrtSq' pushed simultaneously), it saves as many shots as you like automatically in your Windows 10  'pictures' folder...I am at over 2,400 pics now, each around 11 -12 MB .png...

  

 

General Performance

 

For a single 2080 Ti at 4K Ultra, you can expect 'decent' performance as long as you stay relatively high in the MSFS 2020 realm - typically around 40-45 fps or so. But while I like flying high over the mountains and through the clouds, I also have a thing for flying low over large metro areas with their photogrammetry. Further, I love taking the Icon A5 amphibious plane and land on remote mountain lakes, fjords, rivers and in harbours. All that can be taxing and also is the reason why I started to explore SLI options, specifically the undocumented CFR setting, that I discuss in more detail below for 2x 2080 Ti

 

For the purposes of the technical part of this discussion, I have MSFS 2020 on my workstation...a X399 / 2950X, usually at 4.3 all-core, 64 GB of 3466 14/14/14 RAM and 2x Gigabyte Aorus 2080 Ti WB - all cooled by a dual-loop w-cooling system...

 

 

 

Re. general performance, MSFS 2020 tends to only stress a few cores very heavily, so 2950X is not an ideal setup -  even a 4.8 GHz 14nm  Skylake 6700K would probably be better suited..still, the 2950X can more than hold its own at  4.2 GHz - 4.3 GHz, not least because of its fast HEDT dual channel memory, which also seems to matter for MSFS 2020. I am also currently trying out 'Process Lasso' a software app designed to assist with high core loads, among other things. I haven't concluded my testing on that yet but on a preliminary basis, it seems to help a bit. 

 

In my opinion, 'overclocking'  the GPU helps most on the VRAM (typically, I like to be around 700 GB/s for VRAM), but with MSFS 2020, it all comes down to 'overall' system performance - at the same time, be aware that at least at 4K / Ultra + 2x 2080 Ti on full song , it is a "pig on gas watts' . With my initial settings, I saw a sustained 1150 W system draw at the wall for 2x 2080 Ti ...so for the rest of this thread and related pics, I dialed the CPU down to 4250 and the two 2080 Ti cards down to 2130 +- or so - about 950 W (total system)...

 

Internet Connection Speed

 

The faster your internet connection speed, the better the experience with MS FS 2020 as Microsoft's Azure servers 'pump' large amounts of visual information over to your setup.  Microsoft lists 5 Mbps as the minimum, 20 Mbps as recommended and 50 Mbps as ideal. I am on a 100 Mbps (up & down) line and that seems more than enough even for 4K Ultra and 55 - 65 fps.  Left to its own devices on 4K Ultra etc, the highest usage by MS FS 2020 I have seen is in the mid-70 Mbps range.

 

The importance of Cache

 

MS FS 2020 comes with two types of cache - a rolling cache and a manual cache. I am still testing out the manual one as at least with earlier MS FS 2020 versions, it had some issues with manual cache. The rolling cache (appears to be first-in, first out) is a great performance tool, though. In a nutshell, when you fly over a complex area for the first time, it may be a bit jerky, even with high overall fps. However, if you revisit the area, it appears smoother - as long as your rolling cache has a decent size, it will draw from the rolling 'cache' on your system for much of the information it otherwise would have to get from the server. 

 

I set my rolling cache to 200 GBs on a secondary M.2 SSD (meaning NOT the drive with the OS and the MSFS 2020 program on it). A generous cache can do wonders, IMO.

 

Developer Mode

 

MS FS 2020 has a developer mode (accessed via the main menu). That will add a small bar on the top left. It has some fun options (who doesn't like to 'teleport'?), but there also is is 'Display FPS' which is a handy little feature...apart from fps, it has all kinds of other info, including on whether your Main Thread (CPU) or GPU(s) are the limiting factor. IMO, when both culprits alternate rapidly is when your system is set up right - instead of one or the other always being the drag on performance...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Traffic / Object Density

 

In addition to the 4K Ultra settings, MS FS 2020 also offers a multitude of additional settings, including ground detail density for things like boats and road vehicles...setting those on high adds even more realism, but does impact performance a bit. Also, per below, too much of a good thing ? Or did the captain have an 'off day' ?

 

 

 

Overclocking & VRAM

 

As already mentioned, I just use a mild 'oc' now for the CPU and the GPUs because of the immense and sustained power draw with dual GPUs (at full PL and sustainable oc, each card can draw 380 W...). So the GPUs are typically around 2115 - 2130 MHz, PL at 110% while VRAM is around 700 GB/s...VRAM seems to be important for MS FS 2020, IMO.

 

With 4K Ultra / Dense, VRAM usage can also go quite high...there obviously is a difference between allocated' VRAM and actual VRAM usage, but the next pic tells an interesting story...all three shots were taken in a single session, but with varying degrees of complexity. The fact that the VRAM allocation increased to well over 10 GB is telling...

 

 

 

 

MSFS 2020 and SLI-CFR

 

As suggested, a regular single 2080 Ti is just fine for MSFS 2020, as long as you stay high enough above the scenery, i.e. above metro areas. But s soon as you go 'low', especially over one of the MSFS 2020 of the 341 or so photogrammetry cities, a single 2080 Ti starts to show its limitations along with a GHz-limited CPU, dropping into the high 20s FPS. Now, MSFS 2020 is not a FPS game - instead a (steady) 30 FPS is ok for this sim...but 'more is better', so what about SLI ?

 

Regular SLI in MSFS 2020  - i.e. REGULAR NVl-SLI AFR or AFR 2 (AFR = Alternate Frame Rate) is basically useless in MSFS 2020 - but NVL -SLI CFR is a different beast and adds a lot of additional performance for 2x RTX 2080x or 2x RTX Titan cards.

 

SLI-CFR

 

So what exactly is CFR, and why does it matter ? CFR is sometimes called 'tile' or ' checkerboard' frame rendering (and related to yet another mGPU rendering method called SFR or split-frame rendering). Instead of alternate frames, CFR divides a scene into multiple boxes each handled by one of the GPUs. The good part about CFR is that it doesn't really do micro-stutter...

 

While good old 'regular' SLI AFR seems to be on the way out, future GPU gens that go 'multi-chiplet', 'tile' etc will need some form of CFR-type driver. Intel btw has already shown a multi-tile version of their upcoming Xe GPU, and NVidia (and likely AMD) are also rumoured  to be working on this mGPU approach.

 

Still, the app must have some support for NVL-SLI-CFR, and there are a few examples such as several Crytek games, Metro Exodus -and MS FS 2020. The latter's support is certainly not perfect, but it works  well enough to be worth the extra trouble for setup.

 

Now, NVidia quietly enabled NVL-SLI-CFR in its drivers from late November 2019 to the end of May 2020, and you need one of those drivers, as well as a recent version of NVdia Inspector. That said,  NVL-SLI-CFR was never officially documented and for some strange reason, NVidia disabled the (hidden) CFR option shorty before their Ampere release...this does mean that here's a big drawback with NVL-SLI-CFR as you won't be able to use the latest NVidia drivers but instead have to rely on those a few months old (unless Nvidia changes its mind again and reintroduces the CFR option). 

 

Speaking of Ampere, there are just a few 3090 MSFS 2020 vids out there, never mind that any kind of performance evaluation with MSFS 2020 depends heavily on not only all the 4K eye candy being enabled, but also how high you fly...but judging what I have sen re. MS FS 2020 and a 3090, 2x 2080 Tis / CFR are 'very competitive' with a single 3090... 2x 2080 Ti even with just a mild oc can exceed 70 FPS high up in 4K / Ultra and still hit high 40s to low 50s when low over complex scenes...

 

...then again, if NVidia and/or Microsoft decide to offer an update with NVL-SLI enabled, TWO 3090s might just be the thing you need for MS FS 2020 8K / Ultra

 

In any case, here are the NVidia Inspector settings you need once you installed one of the aforementioned drivers

  

 

 

 

 

If you have correctly enabled NVL-SLI-CFR on your RTX 208x or RTX Titan, you will have a bit of a surprise when the first splash screens for MS FS 2020 appear while loading the sim...

 

 

 

 

Now you know why CFR is sometimes called 'checkerboard' rendering...but no worries - by the time you get to the main menu after all the splash screens, everything will be as it should be. Then the fun can begin...

 

Happy landings !

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great additional info, made an interesting read, im sure others will find it useful.

[UltraMega]

Lately I've been trying to land a plane on my high schools football field

[J7SC_Orion]

24 minutes ago, UltraMega said:

Lately I've been trying to land a plane on my high schools football field

 

...I know what you mean ...that little rocky area by the seawall looked spacious enough from above (but wasn't...)

 

[Sir Beregond]

On 10/14/2020 at 11:20 AM, ENTERPRISE said:

Still not got this puppy yet, I am still waiting on getting a new GPU to play this in all its glory !

 

Agreed. Really looking forward to grabbing this when I get a new system built next year.

[J7SC_Orion]

14 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

 

Agreed. Really looking forward to grabbing this when I get a new system built next year.

 

You won't regret it...other than may be re. your monthly electricity bill

...It is one of the trickiest apps I have ever set up (including when compared to HWBot quad-SLI), given that all your system components have to be tuned to work in unison for best results w/ MS FS 2020. But once you have it set up for the sweet-spot, especially on a large 4K monitor, it is breathtaking in many ways...MS FS 2020 is educational, skill-requiring / challenging and great fun all at once, depending what flights / planes you choose...

 

Be that in a 747 banking in over a metro area...

 

 

...or a quick visit to Mt. Everest on a run-way too short for the plane you chose to go high, fast...

   

  

  

 

But I always gravitate back to flights in that little Icon A5 as it allows me to explore the W.Coast of BC where I live...in the parts further North from here, it looks like a mix of the Norwegian and New Zealand.

 

...the Icon A5 is slow and has a limited altitude ceiling, but it can land pretty much anywhere

 

  

 

  

 

  

 

 

  

[UltraMega]

You guys really don't need to wait to play this. With the resolution scaling plus TAA it's easy to get good performance that also looks nice on any reasonably powerful GPU.

[J7SC_Orion]

On 10/14/2020 at 1:10 PM, ENTERPRISE said:

Waiting on Rig Creator but Fyi im on a temp Nvidia 1070 lol

 

...1070 you say ? Check this out, GTX 1070 - 1080p :

   

 

 

...and this...

  

 

  

...in my case, having a dual 2080 Ti setup already on a 40 inch 4k monitor (I probably sit too close to), I obviously wanted to 'max ultra' everything. Besides, 4K Ultra helps to 'mask' TR HEDT lower clock performance  

  

  

Edited October 19, 2020 by J7SC_Orion

[Sir Beregond]

On 10/18/2020 at 1:20 PM, UltraMega said:

You guys really don't need to wait to play this. With the resolution scaling plus TAA it's easy to get good performance that also looks nice on any reasonably powerful GPU.

 

Not sure. 4790k and a GTX 980 (non-Ti) with a 32" 1440p monitor. This GPU really can't handle newer stuff at 1440p.

[UltraMega]

48 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

 

Not sure. 4790k and a GTX 980 (non-Ti) with a 32" 1440p monitor. This GPU really can't handle newer stuff at 1440p.

On high with the resolution scaling at 70% with TAA should work fine on a 980 @1440p.

[J7SC_Orion]

3 hours ago, Sir Beregond said:

 

Not sure. 4790k and a GTX 980 (non-Ti) with a 32" 1440p monitor. This GPU really can't handle newer stuff at 1440p.

 

4790K > 4.7 Ghz (never mind 6700K > 4.7 Ghz) should work fine even at 4K...I have both still running in other systems, and MS FS 2020 doesn't use many threads, so high-clock 4C (4T/8T) unlikely to be a big issue, though cache size also matters. Also, 32GB of decent clocked-&-timed RAM is really helpful with MS FS 2020 

[Sir Beregond]

1 hour ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

4790K > 4.7 Ghz (never mind 6700K > 4.7 Ghz) should work fine even at 4K...I have both still running in other systems, and MS FS 2020 doesn't use many threads, so high-clock 4C (4T/8T) unlikely to be a big issue, though cache size also matters. Also, 32GB of decent clocked-&-timed RAM is really helpful with MS FS 2020 

 

Hmm maybe I'll try it. I wasn't so much concerned about the 4790k as much as I am about the GTX 980.

[UltraMega]

I think the fact that most of the benchmarks for this game are focusing on 4K is giving people the wrong impression. IMO the performance in this game is slightly better/less demanding then Red Dead 2 so if you can run that game, you can run this game. 

[J7SC_Orion]

Even with 1080 max/ultra, anything below a GTX 1660 is probably going to be a bit frustrating in MS FS 2020...here's a relative comparison of GPUs in RDR2 (Guru3D) and MS FS 2020 (HardwareUnboxed) in 1080p max/ultra, providing some generalized 'guide posts'. ...Worth keeping in mind though that for a sim like MS FS 2020 (rather than a 'fps game'), slightly lower average fps are acceptable, as long as it is at least 24 fps - 30 fps 

 

 

....and here is a quick 'sweet revenge' screenie I took earlier...flying underneath the same bridge I got stuck on earlier (in rush hour, in the real world) 

 

[mouacyk]

Wife, where off to today?  Sounds like I need to finally get this. With or w/o RTX 3080.

[UltraMega]

On 10/20/2020 at 11:23 PM, J7SC_Orion said:

Even with 1080 max/ultra, anything below a GTX 1660 is probably going to be a bit frustrating in MS FS 2020...here's a relative comparison of GPUs in RDR2 (Guru3D) and MS FS 2020 (HardwareUnboxed) in 1080p max/ultra, providing some generalized 'guide posts'. ...Worth keeping in mind though that for a sim like MS FS 2020 (rather than a 'fps game'), slightly lower average fps are acceptable, as long as it is at least 24 fps - 30 fps 

 

 

 

OK, fair but I think flight sim is one of those games that had a lot of settings that push the GPU really hard for a highly diminishing return. There are a few settings that you really just don't need maxed out to get nearly the best visual experience possible. For example you can set the detail render distance pretty far in this game, lowering that one notch saves a ton on performance and is barely noticeable especially if you're just looking at the clouds anyway. 

 

I have a mix of mostly high settings with clouds and maybe on or two other things set to ultra @4K with 80% render scaling and TAA. I've been using xbox game par to take screens shots since I have the xbox game pass version. I guess it takes two screens shots, one in HDR and one not in HDR whenever I make one, but the HDR ones are .jxr format and I cannot upload them here. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by UltraMega

[J7SC_Orion]

^nice !

 

...per above YT clips I posted (GTX 1070 / 1080p), it is certainly possible to play at lower resolutions and with older hardware. However, per original post, I wanted to focus, albeit not exclusively, on '4K Ultra / dense objects settings and SLI - CFR' in this thread...basically max on what is possible, including in low flights 

 

Speaking of 'dense object' settings in MS FS 2020, I will probably dial back car traffic (which moves, has headlights at night etc) a bit...highways are getting crowded...and I already showed 'too much' ship traffic 

 

  

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by J7SC_Orion

[J7SC_Orion]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:27 PM, mouacyk said:

Wife, where off to today?  Sounds like I need to finally get this. With or w/o RTX 3080.

 

How about a quick trip to London ? 

(4K png converted to jpg...best viewing with 'open in new tab')

 

Leaving Haethrow...check out that puny A380 compared to my bird...

   

    

  

Order ! Order !! ORDER !!!

 

  

 

  

 

  

...so that's how that bridge looks like from the bottom...

 

 

...time to visit the O2...

 

  

  

  

 

...time for a night flight back...switched to s.th. a bit faster

 

 

 

 

[ENTERPRISE]

8 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

How about a quick trip to London ? 

(4K png converted to jpg...best viewing with 'open in new tab')

 

Leaving Haethrow...check out that puny A380 compared to my bird...

   

    

  

Order ! Order !! ORDER !!!

 

  

 

  

 

  

...so that's how that bridge looks like from the bottom...

 

 

...time to visit the O2...

 

  

  

  

 

...time for a night flight back...switched to s.th. a bit faster

 

 

 

 

Ahh my home city ! Hope you enjoyed the views !

 

I have been thinking of upgrading to 64gb Ram and this game may help push me over the edge lol

[UltraMega]

4 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

 

Ahh my home city ! Hope you enjoyed the views !

 

I have been thinking of upgrading to 64gb Ram and this game may help push me over the edge lol

I think the reason why 32GBs gives a performance boost is because 32GBs of ram is the point at which windows stops using a portion of the hard drive as a cache pool, so the windows page file is stored in ram. Going from 32 to 64 GBs probably wouldn't change anything.

[J7SC_Orion]

7 hours ago, ENTERPRISE said:

 

Ahh my home city ! Hope you enjoyed the views !

 

I have been thinking of upgrading to 64gb Ram and this game may help push me over the edge lol

 

......views were superb, in fact, I think I might have flown over your backyard...(greetings from the bandom thread) 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[ENTERPRISE]

21 hours ago, UltraMega said:

I think the reason why 32GBs gives a performance boost is because 32GBs of ram is the point at which windows stops using a portion of the hard drive as a cache pool, so the windows page file is stored in ram. Going from 32 to 64 GBs probably wouldn't change anything.

 

That is a fair point !

18 hours ago, J7SC_Orion said:

 

......views were superb, in fact, I think I might have flown over your backyard...(greetings from the bandom thread) 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Haha I do like cats !

[mouacyk]

I also read the realism in this game is amazing.  A guy on hardforums looked out of his computer room window and saw a Boeing 747 hanging above his house that he was piloting.  It was unlikely though that he saw himself looking up at the plane -- too far away.

[J7SC_Orion]

8 hours ago, mouacyk said:

I also read the realism in this game is amazing.  A guy on hardforums looked out of his computer room window and saw a Boeing 747 hanging above his house that he was piloting.  It was unlikely though that he saw himself looking up at the plane -- too far away.

 

 ...but wait a few years..with more powerful CPU/GPU combos, petabyte /s networks and a ring of satellites around the earth feeding real-time imagery to MS FS 3000 all going into AI adding your plane, you might see yourself waving at you.

 

What's a bit spooky even now is seeing a few planes in the (real) sky coming in for landing at an airport about 25 km away, and actually seeing them also on the GPS map in MS FS 2020 !

 

______________________
  

...and another satisfying day at the office  ...Fraser Valley (Hope airport) to Vancouver flight at dusk

  

(4K png converted to jpg...best viewing with 'open in new tab')

 

  

    

  

  

  

   

Edited October 27, 2020 by J7SC_Orion