[Official] Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 Information & Discussion Thread

[J7SC_Orion]

...Ushuaia has some interesting weather patterns 

 

 

 

 

[J7SC_Orion]

...perfect weather for a flight at dusk to Mt. Baker (Washington State) which, weather permitting, I can see from my home office 

 

 

 

[J7SC_Orion]

I tried out various DLSS options now that the latest big patch for FS 2020 offers it...but I'll keep it at 4K native (no DLSS) as frame rates are good anyway, even with ray tracing...DX12 seems much improved though over the earlier DX12 stutter mess - but FS2020 needs better CPU optimization as one thread still gets hit particularly hard for most of the FS2020 session.

 

 

[J7SC_Orion]

Folks, if you haven't already done so, install FS 2020 SU 11 (November 11). It's a massive ~ 24 GB patch, but worth it !! RTX 4090 in 4K HDR ultra everything and 400/400 detail hits almost 120 fps (4K OLED limit) with DLSS Quality and 'Frame Insertion'  !

[Andrew]

I have to say the new aircraft added were pretty disappointing.

 

I wasn't expecting PMDG level quality, but what was added wasn't good. They're what I'd consider good for FSX mods and I wouldn't be surprised if they are. None of them are first party and the performance of some (especially the A310-300) is horrendous.

 

First party aircraft thoughI do need to try it with VR to see if the performance has improved there as well.

[J7SC_Orion]

3 hours ago, Andrew said:

I have to say the new aircraft added were pretty disappointing.

 

I wasn't expecting PMDG level quality, but what was added wasn't good. They're what I'd consider good for FSX mods and I wouldn't be surprised if they are. None of them are first party and the performance of some (especially the A310-300) is horrendous.

 

First party aircraft thoughI do need to try it with VR to see if the performance has improved there as well.

 

...I focused primarily on my fav existing aircraft and known scenery for now to test out the promised performance gains and fixes...DX12 was already more or less playable for me before but clearly things have much improved under the hood in addition to the DLSS3 Frame Insertion goodies and the steps they took to control latency. Marketing bumpf is one thing, actually testing it out on my setup was the kicker...

[Andrew]

Update on the bad performance, turns out the default new planes (at least the A310 and DC-3) basically are rips from FS2004. However, if you go into the marketplace and view the free content, there is a "purchase" for both of those planes that gives it significantly better quality textures and improves performance. With the A310, I went from 15-20fps on the ground and 30-35fps in the air to 25-30fps on the ground and 45-60fps in the air. I made no other changes.

[J7SC_Orion]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

Update on the bad performance, turns out the default new planes (at least the A310 and DC-3) basically are rips from FS2004. However, if you go into the marketplace and view the free content, there is a "purchase" for both of those planes that gives it significantly better quality textures and improves performance. With the A310, I went from 15-20fps on the ground and 30-35fps in the air to 25-30fps on the ground and 45-60fps in the air. I made no other changes.

 

What GPU are you running ? I ask because FS 2020 was a DLSS3 Frame Insertion launch title for the RTX 4090 (and presumably other RTX 4k). With the 4090 and DLSS3 and Frame Insertion, I picked up an additional 50 fps +- over my 3090 setup with the same planes / same scenes. 

[Andrew]

RTX 2070 with no plans of upgrading anytime soon. I don't have DLSS3.

[J7SC_Orion]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

RTX 2070 with no plans of upgrading anytime soon. I don't have DLSS3.

 

I will check out the free upgrades in the marketplace for updated textures for the planes you mentioned such as the A310 and DC-3. The RTX 2070 is a nice card for below 4K, and the gains you described above with SU 11 are still quite impressive on a percentage basis. The DLSS3 / Frame Insertion adds additional gains on top of that for the RTX4000 series via both specific hardware and new software (parts of which may yet hit the RTX 2000 + 3000 series, but w/o the extra hardware would introduce additional latency).

 

Anyway, FS2020 was an is my fav sim / 'game' but before it came with a lot of frustration re. its DX12 beta. Now with SU 11, that is no longer the case and the DLSS3 / Frame Insertion is what puts it over the top for me since I play exclusively on the OLED 'limited' to 4K / 120 Hz.

[J7SC_Orion]

Another set of patches for FS 2020. This may only be for RTX 4K, but they now added 'NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency' mode. It is automatically on if DLSS3 and Frame Insertion are checked but you can toggle it for DLSS/3 without Frame Insertion.

 

 

 

[J7SC_Orion]

...added some newer MSFS2020 screenshots over at >this thread

[Andrew]

Cactus

[J7SC_Orion]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

Cactus

 

Nice

...after ten days of rain and snow here, it's nice and sunny but cold outside, with the local mountain peaks full of snow. Time to go for some virtual sky tours !

 

EDIT
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Edited January 28, 2023 by J7SC_Orion

[J7SC_Orion]

...a gorgeous early Sunday morning ! Time to warm up the De Havilland Beaver to fly from our home (buzzed it ) downtown to the mountains and inlet of the Sunshine Coast - I could see those snow-covered peaks when I first woke up. Using the 4090 for this one, throttled back to 80 % (out of 120 %) on PL and with DLSS3, FI, and NVReflex, I also run it at 200 MHz and 230 W less than peak performance - everything stays nice and cool, and with those settings and driver features, I can still get to the 4K 120 max of the OLED.

 

 

 

 

 

[J7SC_Orion]

Another MSFS 2020 patch came out...it seems to have improved on ray reflections. In addition, a lot of new details for sea-farers, such as new super and mega-yachts (in case you're in the market for one )

 

 

 

[Andrew]

Yeah, I noticed those boats around now. It's pretty neat that they've added them. I would like to see functional aircraft carriers outside of that Top Gun event though.

[Andrew]

I can't recommend the PMDG 737 enough. It is very expensive and the learning curve is pretty steep, at least if you want a cold and dark start as well as setting it up to fly properly with autopilot. There is a pre-set "start" option in the in-plane settings that will let you fly it like normal, stock, MSFS 2020 plane. I do only have the 737-700 because it was the first to release and I didn't want to wait for the -800 that most airlines use. They do have the -600 available for $35 USD which I would recommend getting if you just want a 737 and don't care which version. Aside from some physics changes for obvious reasons, all of the systems in the -600, -700 and -800 are all the same. So if you can fly one, you can fly them all. There is also an upcoming -900ER coming on the 7th of Feb.

 

I am really looking forward to their 777-300ER when that does finally come out.

 

 

EDIT: The 737-700 can even go above the speed of sound briefly. Ignore the point at the start. This is mach 1.019, not 0.1019.

 

 

It doesn't have the sonic boom effect. Turns out that is part of the plane audio, not world audio.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Andrew

[J7SC_Orion]

6 hours ago, Andrew said:

I can't recommend the PMDG 737 enough. It is very expensive and the learning curve is pretty steep, at least if you want a cold and dark start as well as setting it up to fly properly with autopilot. There is a pre-set "start" option in the in-plane settings that will let you fly it like normal, stock, MSFS 2020 plane. I do only have the 737-700 because it was the first to release and I didn't want to wait for the -800 that most airlines use. They do have the -600 available for $35 USD which I would recommend getting if you just want a 737 and don't care which version. Aside from some physics changes for obvious reasons, all of the systems in the -600, -700 and -800 are all the same. So if you can fly one, you can fly them all. There is also an upcoming -900ER coming on the 7th of Feb.

 

I am really looking forward to their 777-300ER when that does finally come out.

 

 

EDIT: The 737-700 can even go above the speed of sound briefly. Ignore the point at the start. This is mach 1.019, not 0.1019.

 

 

It doesn't have the sonic boom effect. Turns out that is part of the plane audio, not world audio.

 

Nice  - though exceeding the speed of sound in a 737 may not go down well with the FAA & Co; busted ! 

 

...yeah, MSFS 2020 has been getting a lot of patches and also additional 3rd party marketplace content lately. That's good to see as they're still investing in it. The DLSS3/FI/NVRef RTX4K update made me very happy, considering how MSFS2020 started out - always full of promise, but the early iterations had some 'coding issues'. Some of those are still lurking under the surface, but have far less impact. Even the DLLS2 / RTX3K secondary setup I sometimes use is a lot more playable, IMO. 

 

Below, the 'weird' Halo Pelican leaving Lukla for Mt. Everest...

 

 

 

 

 

Some Pitts stomach-twisting over our place...

 

 

 

 

...and a quick jaunt over to Iceland for some night flying...

 

 

 

 

 

[Andrew]

Yeah, I don't see Microsoft/Asobo dropping support any time soon. Especially considering Bing Maps and MSFS are kind of the same thing. I do think eventually we're going to get photogrammetry updates for all countries except North Korea as well as probably China and Russia as photogrammetry (at least with current tech) is only possible with lowish flying planes. Once we've managed to get it to work accurately enough with satellites, we'll get those in updates as well.

 

The Halo Pelican is a pretty fun thing to fly around with. I like that you can open the rear door mid-flight then you can walk towards it while hovering. If you don't have VR, I'd strongly suggest you get it. Performance for me is pretty poor, but I do have an RTX 2070 which is quite a bit less powerful than both your 4090 and 3090.

 

I can't do DLSS though, not with glass cockpits anyway. I don't know if this is just an issue with the 2000 series cards, but the information on the screens becomes a blurry mess with DLSS on. Here's DLSS on vs off

 

[J7SC_Orion]

6 hours ago, Andrew said:

Yeah, I don't see Microsoft/Asobo dropping support any time soon. Especially considering Bing Maps and MSFS are kind of the same thing. I do think eventually we're going to get photogrammetry updates for all countries except North Korea as well as probably China and Russia as photogrammetry (at least with current tech) is only possible with lowish flying planes. Once we've managed to get it to work accurately enough with satellites, we'll get those in updates as well.

 

The Halo Pelican is a pretty fun thing to fly around with. I like that you can open the rear door mid-flight then you can walk towards it while hovering. If you don't have VR, I'd strongly suggest you get it. Performance for me is pretty poor, but I do have an RTX 2070 which is quite a bit less powerful than both your 4090 and 3090.

 

I can't do DLSS though, not with glass cockpits anyway. I don't know if this is just an issue with the 2000 series cards, but the information on the screens becomes a blurry mess with DLSS on. Here's DLSS on vs off

 

 

- I didn't know about the back hatch with the Halo Pelican - have to try that !

- I've considered VR, but the few times I have tried it at friends' places, I get a weird migraine...but those were older setups. 4090 in particular should have enough oomph for VR. I understand that there are new OLED VR sets out there; I'll have to try one of those.

 

- The DLSS glass cockpit thing on DLSS RTX 2K clearly is an issue - if you check the Pelican cockpit above (DLSS3/FI/NVReflex) it doesn't seem to have that problem, but I will check on my other system. 

[Andrew]

I'm trying with the Halo Pelican right now.

Using DX11 (DX12 is unplayable for me) and DLSS, this is what the glass cockpit looks like in the various settings (minus auto):

 

Ultra performance

Performance

Balanced (what the F-18 screenshot was)

Quality

DLAA

Off

 

The frame rate difference I'm getting between off and quality which is pretty much the same as DLAA, is only a 3fps increase. That extra 3fps isn't worth the blurry text.

 

EDIT: While I'm in this plane/helicopter/thing, here's the interior view with the rear open where you can walk around while around downtown LA.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Andrew

[J7SC_Orion]

8 hours ago, Andrew said:

I'm trying with the Halo Pelican right now.

Using DX11 (DX12 is unplayable for me) and DLSS, this is what the glass cockpit looks like in the various settings (minus auto):

 

Ultra performance

Performance

Balanced (what the F-18 screenshot was)

Quality

DLAA

Off

 

The frame rate difference I'm getting between off and quality which is pretty much the same as DLAA, is only a 3fps increase. That extra 3fps isn't worth the blurry text.

 

EDIT: While I'm in this plane/helicopter/thing, here's the interior view with the rear open where you can walk around while around downtown LA.

 

 

...I like that open rear hatch trick 

 

FYI, running various filters (little windows have descriptions in the title). Obviously a .png of multiple .jpg so some degradation, and sometimes the display numbers were in the middle of changing, but overall, it gives some clues. Positive surprise of the bunch:  AMD FSR2 'Quality' (w/ NV Reflex ?) - worst of the bunch AMD FSR2 'Superperformance'

 

[J7SC_Orion]

@Andrew...I was playing FS 2020 tonight on that older work machine to which I recently added the 3090. I noticed that I could toggle NVidia Reflex on and off, even when using AMD FSR 2 'Quality' instead of DLSS(2.x) 'Quality'. Do you see the same with your RTX 2K setup ? Not sure if it makes a difference,  I am on the latest NVidia driver / 4K res.

[Andrew]

I could, but it made no difference. I'm just not going to use DLSS tbh. Switching it on makes me go from 28-30fps to 32-34fps.

 

It's not worth it when the glass cockpit of the planes I normally fly look like this.