Dud 5900x? Return or keep?

[neurotix]

So per my other topic, I upgraded from a 3900x to a 5900x. The upgrade went smooth and my system is running fine. However-

 

1. I'm using PBO and the ASUS ROG specific fmax enhancer and under a gaming load, my first 4-6 threads Boost to 4950MHz. My 3900x only boosted to 4650MHz. Clock for clock, the 5900x is 25% faster, and I'm getting 300 MHz on top of that. According to AMD's website, the max boost for the 5900x is 4.8GHz so no complaints here.

 

2. The chip refuses to run the Infinity Fabric at anything more than 1866MHz. I'm running it at 1866MHz with 3733MHz memory at cas 16 and VERY EXTREMELY disappointed because I had really hoped with 5000 series, I would be able to get 4000MHz RAM/2000 MHz fclk. I have all my settings set correctly, like BGS_Alt, memory interleave size, PMU training etc. and I am using the same RAM timings that my 3900x ran at 3800MHz/ 1900MHz Fabric clock no problem. I have seen other people around the net mention increasing the VDD_SOC to 1.2v but I have not tried that or exceeded 1.125v which is the safe max value. My SOC voltage is 1.125, VDDP is 1.1 and VDDG IOD and CCD are 1.090. Still will not post higher than 1866MHz fabric and fails early in the boot process with a 0d post code on my Crosshair VIII Hero. Also, trying to run 3733MHz cas 14 is probably not an option either as I tried that extensively with my 3900x and the kit won't do it.

 

I have attached my AIDA64 which I'm also disappointed with, the copy being very low especially. My old 3900x was around 60 Read, 58 write and 62 copy at around 62 ns.

 

So the question is, do I order a new one and return this dud? How common is to for Ryzen 5000 to hit 1900MHz fabric clock, let alone 2000MHz? The system IS faster overall and I notice a difference in boot time, faster loading into Windows, faster in Windows in general, and so forth. Really no difference in Linux though because Linux is always fast, lol.

Edited November 20, 2022 by neurotix

[damric]

Vermeer is still hit or miss with that 12nm GloFlo IOD. If that's all the IF will do, then I guess try tightening timings. There isn't much else you can do other than juice that SOC to 1.25v. 

 

If it's a memory hole, you could try tricking it with base clock. I run 104 on a lot of my Ryzens.

Edited November 20, 2022 by damric

[The Pook]

are you on the latest BIOS/agesa version? 

[neurotix]

Just now, The Pook said:

are you on the latest BIOS/agesa version? 

 Yes, bios is the latest.

 

Damric, perhaps I will try boosting SOC that high and see if it will do it.

[Sir Beregond]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

2. The chip refuses to run the Infinity Fabric at anything more than 1866MHz.

My 5900X won't either. This is pretty hit or miss.

 

I may try @damric idea with the base clock.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Sir Beregond

[pio]

As others already mentioned, try BCLK or SoC up some.  I personally won't pass about 1.20v SoC, and on my particular 5800x, it doesn't seem to matter.  I can run 1900 at 1.125v SoC, but 1933 is unstable no matter how much voltage I give it.

 

I thought the same, 5800x should surely do 2000 IF Clock, so I bought DDR4-4000 to go with it.  Yeah nope.  And I came from a 1866 IF clocking Ryzen 3600.  No point in returning it, you have to have a golden sample it seems to do 2000.

[neurotix]

Okay guys. Thanks for all the input.

 

I tried up to 1.25v VDD_SOC for 1900MHz Fabric clock and 3800MHz memory and it's a no go. I fail very early in the boot process with an 07 post code.

 

However, it seems to do 3733/1866 fine, and the Ryzen DRAM Calculator does have a set of "Fast" timings for 3733MHz with primary timings at 14. So I may be able to try that angle. Though, those settings never worked on my 3900x.

 

I wonder why my copy bandwidth is so low- it was usually a little bit higher than read on my 3900x.

 

Also, is it possible to get the chip to boost higher than 4950MHz? I was under the mistaken impression that these chips boosted to 5.1GHz. Currently, I just have PBO turned on and PBO Fmax enhancer. Sir Beregond, what does your 5900x boost to?

 

I plan on benching this chip for HWBOT in the CPU benches as as well as running 3D benches (Time Spy, Fire Strike Extreme) so if it's possible to get it to boost higher that would be great.

 

Thanks in advance for all the help. Also how do I give people rep here? I used the thanks button but I'm not sure thats it.

Edited November 21, 2022 by neurotix

[Sir Beregond]

15 minutes ago, neurotix said:

Okay guys. Thanks for all the input.

 

I tried up to 1.25v VDD_SOC for 1900MHz Fabric clock and 3800MHz memory and it's a no go. I fail very early in the boot process with an 07 post code.

 

However, it seems to do 3733/1866 fine, and the Ryzen DRAM Calculator does have a set of "Fast" timings for 3733MHz with primary timings at 14. So I may be able to try that angle. Though, those settings never worked on my 3900x.

 

I wonder why my copy bandwidth is so low- it was usually a little bit higher than read on my 3900x.

 

Also, is it possible to get the chip to boost higher than 4950MHz? I was under the mistaken impression that these chips boosted to 5.1GHz. Currently, I just have PBO turned on and PBO Fmax enhancer. Sir Beregond, what does your 5900x boost to?

 

I plan on benching this chip for HWBOT in the CPU benches as as well as running 3D benches (Time Spy, Fire Strike Extreme) so if it's possible to get it to boost higher that would be great.

 

Thanks in advance for all the help. Also how do I give people rep here? I used the thanks button but I'm not sure thats it.

I've found the Ryzen DRAM Calculator to not really work for Zen 3. I don't think they ever updated it after Zen 2.

[neurotix]

2 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

I've found the Ryzen DRAM Calculator to not really work for Zen 3. I don't think they ever updated it after Zen 2.

 

Actually, it does work for Zen 3 however the naming they use is not in line with what everyone else uses. They call Zen 2000 series "Zen+" and Zen 3000 series "Ryzen 2nd gen" in the drop-down box for CPU selection. The settings it gave me worked great with my 3900x to hit 3800/1900 and those settings still work with my 5900x, except it won't do 1900MHz fclk. On OCN in the Ryzen owners club and other threads people were posting screenshots and using it heavily when I first got my Zen 3 setup in 2019. You are correct that it has not been updated for Zen 3+ (5000 series) though.

 

Hey can you answer my question from my last post? What does your 5900x boost to if you're using PBO and what are your settings? I'd like to get this thing boosting over 5Ghz if possible. Thanks.

[Sir Beregond]

2 minutes ago, neurotix said:

 

Actually, it does work for Zen 3 however the naming they use is not in line with what everyone else uses. They call Zen 2000 series "Zen+" and Zen 3000 series "Ryzen 2nd gen" in the drop-down box for CPU selection. The settings it gave me worked great with my 3900x to hit 3800/1900 and those settings still work with my 5900x, except it won't do 1900MHz fclk. On OCN in the Ryzen owners club and other threads people were posting screenshots and using it heavily when I first got my Zen 3 setup in 2019. You are correct that it has not been updated for Zen 3+ (5000 series) though.

 

Hey can you answer my question from my last post? What does your 5900x boost to if you're using PBO and what are your settings? I'd like to get this thing boosting over 5Ghz if possible. Thanks.

It easily boosts to over 5GHz. I'll have to find my settings and I'll get back to you. I am at the office today.

[neurotix]

57 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

It easily boosts to over 5GHz. I'll have to find my settings and I'll get back to you. I am at the office today.

Thanks greatly. That might make up for the slower memory/fclk.

 

Currently just have PBO Enabled, PBO Fmax Enhancer enabled, and all the Digi+VRM stuff set to 140% current limit etc. since I'm on an Asus board.

 

Really looking forward to this, thanks.

[Sir Beregond]

23 minutes ago, neurotix said:

Thanks greatly. That might make up for the slower memory/fclk.

 

Currently just have PBO Enabled, PBO Fmax Enhancer enabled, and all the Digi+VRM stuff set to 140% current limit etc. since I'm on an Asus board.

 

Really looking forward to this, thanks.

I'll definitely let you know when I get home.

 

I never really figured out how to manually tweak PPT, TDC, EDC so I have that on I think motherboard limit. As for the other settings, I can tell you I have optimized Core Optimizer per core (took a very long time to do) and with it only have +100 MHz offset so as to keep a balance of boost clocks and optimized undervolting. There is a bit of a balancing act here with those, though I hear there might be some newer settings in more recent BIOS/agesa, but I am on an older version.

[damric]

If it's stable at those frequencies, you can add +200MHz to the top boost, and you should be able to add up to another 4% on top of that by adjusting the base clock. To stabilize that you might need to actually have a positive voltage offset and/or tight load line settings which will make it run much hotter in idle and load.

[Sir Beregond]

32 minutes ago, damric said:

If it's stable at those frequencies, you can add +200MHz to the top boost, and you should be able to add up to another 4% on top of that by adjusting the base clock. To stabilize that you might need to actually have a positive voltage offset and/or tight load line settings which will make it run much hotter in idle and load.

I ended up following this guide, but I am very intrigued about messing around with base clock.

 

 

[neurotix]

43 minutes ago, damric said:

If it's stable at those frequencies, you can add +200MHz to the top boost, and you should be able to add up to another 4% on top of that by adjusting the base clock. To stabilize that you might need to actually have a positive voltage offset and/or tight load line settings which will make it run much hotter in idle and load.

 

So I should go into the PBO settings and change it to +200MHz?

 

I will probably leave the base clock alone. Doesn't that affect PCI-E bus as well, or not? I know overclocking the PCI-E bus is a big no-no and especially using NVM-E drives it will corrupt your SSD.

 

Good news however. I was able to POST and boot and run Windows at some very tight timings for 3733MHz from the Ryzen DRAM Calculator:

 

 

My AIDA64 Memory results:

 

 

3ns faster than my previous timings which were from the Calc and for my 3900x @ 3800MHz.

 

My 3900x would not POST with these timings at 3733MHz, so I'm pretty happy right now.

 

Now I just gotta get it boosting higher and I'll be ready to bench for HWBOT.

 

Also, looking at your profile Luke, it says you're the folding@home editor. Any link to the f@h thread? I'll have to see if my wife has my passkey for f@h and change teams, I have over 100m in f@h and maybe I'll start doing it again. Btw, looking at your rigs- do you still have the XFX RX 580? Hope you are doing well with your back pain and have found some relief, I just finally had a back surgery on Nov 2nd and the recovery has been hell, I'm having pretty bad back pain all the time currently. But thankfully theres vicadin, lol.

[Sir Beregond]

Yeah if you just want a quick PBO, can just set the offset to +200 without really doing anything in Curve Optimizer (leaving it on Auto).

[neurotix]

29 minutes ago, Sir Beregond said:

Yeah if you just want a quick PBO, can just set the offset to +200 without really doing anything in Curve Optimizer (leaving it on Auto).

Thanks. I'll try this now.

 

Edit: will leaving voltage on Auto be fine for this?

Edited November 21, 2022 by neurotix

[damric]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

 

So I should go into the PBO settings and change it to +200MHz?

 

I will probably leave the base clock alone. Doesn't that affect PCI-E bus as well, or not? I know overclocking the PCI-E bus is a big no-no and especially using NVM-E drives it will corrupt your SSD.

 

Good news however. I was able to POST and boot and run Windows at some very tight timings for 3733MHz from the Ryzen DRAM Calculator:

 

 

My AIDA64 Memory results:

 

 

3ns faster than my previous timings which were from the Calc and for my 3900x @ 3800MHz.

 

My 3900x would not POST with these timings at 3733MHz, so I'm pretty happy right now.

 

Now I just gotta get it boosting higher and I'll be ready to bench for HWBOT.

 

Also, looking at your profile Luke, it says you're the folding@home editor. Any link to the f@h thread? I'll have to see if my wife has my passkey for f@h and change teams, I have over 100m in f@h and maybe I'll start doing it again. Btw, looking at your rigs- do you still have the XFX RX 580? Hope you are doing well with your back pain and have found some relief, I just finally had a back surgery on Nov 2nd and the recovery has been hell, I'm having pretty bad back pain all the time currently. But thankfully theres vicadin, lol.

I've actually found that NVMe drives are more tolerant to a small bus clock than SATA drives. A lot of these boards will drop down to half PCIe speed if you exceed roughly 104 base clock so you only have a little bit to play with. It's nice if you are just trying to get like 5GHz but topping out at like 4950, just 101 will put you over.

 

Yeah I'm the one running the monthly folding contests and the extreme team here now. I'll pm you some info later.

 

My back, yeah it still gives me problems and more recently my right knee that I've had repaired a few times is acting up. But most recently I blew out my left knee so I'm dealing with that right now and surgery imminent to repair the ligaments that tore. It's like a constant struggle to maintain this body.

[pio]

47 minutes ago, neurotix said:

Thanks. I'll try this now.

 

Edit: will leaving voltage on Auto be fine for this?

Personally, for my 5800x, I used the following for PBO:

 

+200MHz
Enabled PBO (not auto) (I think I had two settings "enabled" but Asus board)
I left the scaler options auto

-0.05v offset vcore

1.125v SoC with IF "Overclocking" enabled

+130% power limits

 

Assuming you're stable at a very slight undervolt, the undervolt will keep it boosting higher.  It'll boost as high as the cooling allows honestly.  If you're getting too hot, it might not boost over 4.9.  With my 240mm cooler I'd boost to about 5050MHz.  With my 360mm cooler now I've seen 5150 for example (and 4.60GHz all core at best up to 4.75GHz all core NON PBO overclocks).

[neurotix]

8 minutes ago, damric said:

My back, yeah it still gives me problems and more recently my right knee that I've had repaired a few times is acting up. But most recently I blew out my left knee so I'm dealing with that right now and surgery imminent to repair the ligaments that tore. It's like a constant struggle to maintain this body.

 

I will give the bus clock thing a try if 101 can get me above 5GHz.

 

I am sorry to hear about your knee and hope your procedure to fix it goes well.

 

I am still personally dealing with severe low back, hip, and neck pain though the back is so bad from the procedure that I don't notice the hip or neck pain nearly as much.

 

On another note, I tried increasing the PBO by 200MHz and just testing using the CPU-Z bench, during the single core test only one thread was boosting and only to 4850 instead of 4950. Here's a pic (mostly for Sir Beregond):

 

 

Do I possibly need to increase CPU voltage (right now it's just on Auto) by applying a positive offset? damric especially, where should I start with this? How much should I apply in the offset?

 

Thanks for all the help. I really wanna get this thing tuned then bench it for HWBOT. Also, damric take a look at my HWBOT- last week I paid for a 3dmark key (finally >_>) and also a Superposition key and snagged like 200 globals benching those as well as some CPU benches. I can do them again on my 5900x cuz those were on my 3900x.

[neurotix]

1 minute ago, pioneerisloud said:

Personally, for my 5800x, I used the following for PBO:

 

+200MHz
Enabled PBO (not auto) (I think I had two settings "enabled" but Asus board)
I left the scaler options auto

-0.05v offset vcore

1.125v SoC with IF "Overclocking" enabled

+130% power limits

 

Assuming you're stable at a very slight undervolt, the undervolt will keep it boosting higher.  It'll boost as high as the cooling allows honestly.  If you're getting too hot, it might not boost over 4.9.  With my 240mm cooler I'd boost to about 5050MHz.  With my 360mm cooler now I've seen 5150 for example (and 4.60GHz all core at best up to 4.75GHz all core NON PBO overclocks).

 

Sorry for double post. Yeah, I was wondering if the voltage/heat was limiting the boost clocks (see my last post). My power limit is at 140%. I have experienced issues with PBO in the past when I was trying the same thing because of voltage, and getting bad single thread OCs so I'll give these settings a try. About to go out to eat with the family as my sister is visiting and we are going to a very high end Japanese restaurant. So I may not be able to respond to this til tomorrow.

 

Heat does not seem to be a problem. I had heard that Ryzen 5000 series run hotter than the 3000 series from many sources. However, this thing is running consistently cooler than my 3900x... for example, in CPU-Z bench and in Cinebench the temp display on my post code monitor on the board is only showing the CPU hitting 55C, whereas using PBO and running those benches on my 3900x I would hit 72C. When I mounted my waterblock I used a large amount of Prolimatech PK-3 Nano (similar to Arctic MX-4) since I was having high idle and load temps on my 3900x with my cooler, which is a Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360mm (rad is 38mm thick, look it up, it's much better than a Corsair cooler and not made by Asetek).

 

I think heat MAY be a problem for single core boosting because of hot spots, not to mention this chip has 2 CCX's whereas the 3900x has 4.

[pio]

41 minutes ago, neurotix said:

 

I will give the bus clock thing a try if 101 can get me above 5GHz.

 

I am sorry to hear about your knee and hope your procedure to fix it goes well.

 

I am still personally dealing with severe low back, hip, and neck pain though the back is so bad from the procedure that I don't notice the hip or neck pain nearly as much.

 

On another note, I tried increasing the PBO by 200MHz and just testing using the CPU-Z bench, during the single core test only one thread was boosting and only to 4850 instead of 4950. Here's a pic (mostly for Sir Beregond):

 

 

Do I possibly need to increase CPU voltage (right now it's just on Auto) by applying a positive offset? damric especially, where should I start with this? How much should I apply in the offset?

 

Thanks for all the help. I really wanna get this thing tuned then bench it for HWBOT. Also, damric take a look at my HWBOT- last week I paid for a 3dmark key (finally >_>) and also a Superposition key and snagged like 200 globals benching those as well as some CPU benches. I can do them again on my 5900x cuz those were on my 3900x.

There's 2 PBO menus in your BIOS.  Put those same exact settings in ALSO under "AMD Overclocking" under the "Advanced" tab.

[pio]

Also, when doing TIM, and I could be wrong, I'm no expert by any means.  But I've found on all my Ryzen chips the X method using thin lines seems to be the best.  Every CPU in the past I'd use the whole "small grain of rice" method, but due to hot spots as you mentioned, Ryzens seem to work better with a little more.  And the X method seems to spread the grease out very nicely and fill in any irregularities in the IHS nicely.

 

I tried editing this into last post, but forum wouldn't allow it. *shrugs

[damric]

Yeah I saw your recent scores on HWBOT when I checked it this morning. Nice work.

 

Really the undervolting/overvolting depends on the leakage of the chip. It's going to run cooler and boost more often if you undervolt. But it might not be stable with undervolt. It might take adding voltage to stabilize adding more MHz. In a best case scenario, it's such a golden chip that you can run +200 with 104 base clock, AND a negative offset. Highly unlikely, and I've never seen a high tier Ryzen that could do that, though it is theoretically possible. I can do it on a 5500 but it's got low stock clocks.

[Sir Beregond]

1 hour ago, neurotix said:

 

I will give the bus clock thing a try if 101 can get me above 5GHz.

 

I am sorry to hear about your knee and hope your procedure to fix it goes well.

 

I am still personally dealing with severe low back, hip, and neck pain though the back is so bad from the procedure that I don't notice the hip or neck pain nearly as much.

 

On another note, I tried increasing the PBO by 200MHz and just testing using the CPU-Z bench, during the single core test only one thread was boosting and only to 4850 instead of 4950. Here's a pic (mostly for Sir Beregond):

 

 

Do I possibly need to increase CPU voltage (right now it's just on Auto) by applying a positive offset? damric especially, where should I start with this? How much should I apply in the offset?

 

Thanks for all the help. I really wanna get this thing tuned then bench it for HWBOT. Also, damric take a look at my HWBOT- last week I paid for a 3dmark key (finally >_>) and also a Superposition key and snagged like 200 globals benching those as well as some CPU benches. I can do them again on my 5900x cuz those were on my 3900x.

Oh...definitely do not use the Extreme Tweaker tab. Set everything back to default settings on here and instead go to the Advanced Tab -> AMD Overclocking.

 

Concur with others that if you have sufficient cooling, undervolting can and will result in better boosts. I have gotten as high as 5.15GHz boosts, but that particular undervolt wasn't the most stable. The part that really takes a ton of time is figuring out a per core undervolt via Core Optimizer. But if you don't want to do that, can definitely do what Pio suggested with just a vcore negative offset undervolt.

 

Typically without working on a CO or undervolt, PBO caps out at 4950MHz. This is what I mean where I said I got better results with a +100 offset and a fully optimized per core curve optimizer, which was allowing me to hit closer to 5-5.05GHz boosts on best cores.

 

I'll be headed home shortly, so will post back here with my settings as a data point, obviously your chip will be different, so definitely do NOT recommend just plugging in my same CO settings and expecting it to work.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Sir Beregond
fixing auto-"corrects"