J7SC_Orion

Crysis, like many other Crytek games, loves NVL/SLI-CFR...unfortunately, NVidia disabled CFR again with the latest drivers, afaik...worried about dual 2K RTX giving the 3K RTX a run for the money ?

...a quick pic quality test of 4K PNG converted to 4K JPG...if it doesn't enlarge by double-clicking on the image, please choose 'open link in new tab' ..also found this YouTube vid by SPECTRE_01...hold on to your lunch ;-) https://youtu.be/iptZ6S_SKeY?t=192 (sorry, still trying to figure out how to link a YouTube here ? )

...2080 Ti 'test escapes' Turing release says 'hi' ? ...> here

...time for some 4K pics !

Thank you for the ebay links @Laithan ! I know there's a way to solder the PWM onto the GentleTyphoon 3k rpm fans, but I much rather just have the molex fan controller with adjustment knob !

Thanks very much @doyll ! I wasn't really planning this AIO rebuild as a to-do-project, but the opportunity just presented itself. As of this morning, temp deltas for idle and load are still exactly where they are supposed to be, but it is going to take more time before I really know if this was a successful operation...

Until Cyberpunk hits, some MS Flight Simulator 2020 ?

Welcome to some thoughts, tips and pics for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2020...Performance tips, real world system requirements for 4K Ultra / dense objects settings and SLI - CFR for 2x Nvidia RTX 2080 Tis and/or 2x Titan RTX... The moment this sim was officially released, I purchased the Premium Deluxe edition --- and then endured 2.5 days of incredible frustration as there was this 95GB 'patch' to download...MS Azure cloud servers were apparently not up to the task of matching this gorgeous' game and graphics...But that frustration turned into 'wow' as Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 ('MSFS 2020') has become my absolute favorite app... That said, Microsoft can still drive you crazy with 'patch updates NOW' in the multi-GB range, even if you you would rather do that later, at your own time.. A few other negatives relate to maps. The one in the general menu where your choose your location becomes an inaccurate grey blob lacking identifying detail, while in the in-flight map (activated via the 'v' key) can sometimes drop the whole thing to the desktop. But no matter what, MS FS 2020 is a fantastic piece of enjoyment - I even find it quite practical, not just because I can actually see my kitchen ? ... I reside in BC with lots of mountains, lakes, fjords and so forth and I can now explore beyond what I experienced on the ground in a 4x4 during many trips....I always wanted to know what was beyond the next ridge. And with the screen grab option (the 'windows' key + 'PrtSq' pushed simultaneously), it saves as many shots as you like automatically in your Windows 10 'pictures' folder...I am at over 2,400 pics now, each around 11 -12 MB .png... General Performance For a single 2080 Ti at 4K Ultra, you can expect 'decent' performance as long as you stay relatively high in the MSFS 2020 realm - typically around 40-45 fps or so. But while I like flying high over the mountains and through the clouds, I also have a thing for flying low over large metro areas with their photogrammetry. Further, I love taking the Icon A5 amphibious plane and land on remote mountain lakes, fjords, rivers and in harbours. All that can be taxing and also is the reason why I started to explore SLI options, specifically the undocumented CFR setting, that I discuss in more detail below for 2x 2080 Ti For the purposes of the technical part of this discussion, I have MSFS 2020 on my workstation...a X399 / 2950X, usually at 4.3 all-core, 64 GB of 3466 14/14/14 RAM and 2x Gigabyte Aorus 2080 Ti WB - all cooled by a dual-loop w-cooling system... Re. general performance, MSFS 2020 tends to only stress a few cores very heavily, so 2950X is not an ideal setup - even a 4.8 GHz 14nm Skylake 6700K would probably be better suited..still, the 2950X can more than hold its own at 4.2 GHz - 4.3 GHz, not least because of its fast HEDT dual channel memory, which also seems to matter for MSFS 2020. I am also currently trying out 'Process Lasso' a software app designed to assist with high core loads, among other things. I haven't concluded my testing on that yet but on a preliminary basis, it seems to help a bit. In my opinion, 'overclocking' the GPU helps most on the VRAM (typically, I like to be around 700 GB/s for VRAM), but with MSFS 2020, it all comes down to 'overall' system performance - at the same time, be aware that at least at 4K / Ultra + 2x 2080 Ti on full song , it is a "pig on gas watts' . With my initial settings, I saw a sustained 1150 W system draw at the wall for 2x 2080 Ti ?...so for the rest of this thread and related pics, I dialed the CPU down to 4250 and the two 2080 Ti cards down to 2130 +- or so - about 950 W (total system)... Internet Connection Speed The faster your internet connection speed, the better the experience with MS FS 2020 as Microsoft's Azure servers 'pump' large amounts of visual information over to your setup. Microsoft lists 5 Mbps as the minimum, 20 Mbps as recommended and 50 Mbps as ideal. I am on a 100 Mbps (up & down) line and that seems more than enough even for 4K Ultra and 55 - 65 fps. Left to its own devices on 4K Ultra etc, the highest usage by MS FS 2020 I have seen is in the mid-70 Mbps range. The importance of Cache MS FS 2020 comes with two types of cache - a rolling cache and a manual cache. I am still testing out the manual one as at least with earlier MS FS 2020 versions, it had some issues with manual cache. The rolling cache (appears to be first-in, first out) is a great performance tool, though. In a nutshell, when you fly over a complex area for the first time, it may be a bit jerky, even with high overall fps. However, if you revisit the area, it appears smoother - as long as your rolling cache has a decent size, it will draw from the rolling 'cache' on your system for much of the information it otherwise would have to get from the server. I set my rolling cache to 200 GBs on a secondary M.2 SSD (meaning NOT the drive with the OS and the MSFS 2020 program on it). A generous cache can do wonders, IMO. Developer Mode MS FS 2020 has a developer mode (accessed via the main menu). That will add a small bar on the top left. It has some fun options (who doesn't like to 'teleport'?), but there also is is 'Display FPS' which is a handy little feature...apart from fps, it has all kinds of other info, including on whether your Main Thread (CPU) or GPU(s) are the limiting factor. IMO, when both culprits alternate rapidly is when your system is set up right - instead of one or the other always being the drag on performance... Traffic / Object Density In addition to the 4K Ultra settings, MS FS 2020 also offers a multitude of additional settings, including ground detail density for things like boats and road vehicles...setting those on high adds even more realism, but does impact performance a bit. Also, per below, too much of a good thing ? Or did the captain have an 'off day' ? ? Overclocking & VRAM As already mentioned, I just use a mild 'oc' now for the CPU and the GPUs because of the immense and sustained power draw with dual GPUs (at full PL and sustainable oc, each card can draw 380 W...). So the GPUs are typically around 2115 - 2130 MHz, PL at 110% while VRAM is around 700 GB/s...VRAM seems to be important for MS FS 2020, IMO. With 4K Ultra / Dense, VRAM usage can also go quite high...there obviously is a difference between allocated' VRAM and actual VRAM usage, but the next pic tells an interesting story...all three shots were taken in a single session, but with varying degrees of complexity. The fact that the VRAM allocation increased to well over 10 GB is telling... MSFS 2020 and SLI-CFR As suggested, a regular single 2080 Ti is just fine for MSFS 2020, as long as you stay high enough above the scenery, i.e. above metro areas. But s soon as you go 'low', especially over one of MSFS 2020s 341 or so photogrammetry cities, a single 2080 Ti starts to show its limitations along with a GHz-limited CPU, dropping into the high 20s FPS. Now, MSFS 2020 is not a FPS game - instead a (steady) 30 FPS is ok for this sim...but 'more is better', so what about SLI ? Regular SLI in MSFS 2020 - i.e. REGULAR NVl-SLI AFR or AFR 2 (AFR = Alternate Frame Rate) is basically useless in MSFS 2020 - but NVL -SLI CFR is a different beast and adds a lot of additional performance for 2x RTX 2080x or 2x RTX Titan cards. SLI-CFR So what exactly is CFR, and why does it matter ? CFR is sometimes called 'tile' or ' checkerboard' frame rendering (and related to yet another mGPU rendering method called SFR or split-frame rendering). Instead of alternate frames, CFR divides a scene into multiple boxes each handled by one of the GPUs. The good part about CFR is that it doesn't really do micro-stutter... While good old 'regular' SLI AFR seems to be on the way out, future GPU gens that go 'multi-chiplet', 'tile' etc will need some form of CFR-type driver. Intel btw has already shown a multi-tile version of their upcoming Xe GPU, and NVidia (and likely AMD) are also rumoured to be working on this mGPU approach. Still, the app must have some support for NVL-SLI-CFR, and there are a few examples such as several Crytek games, Metro Exodus -and MS FS 2020. The latter's support is certainly not perfect, but it works well enough to be worth the extra trouble for setup. Now, NVidia quietly enabled NVL-SLI-CFR in its drivers from late November 2019 to the end of May 2020, and you need one of those drivers, as well as a recent version of NVdia Inspector. That said, NVL-SLI-CFR was never officially documented and for some strange reason, NVidia disabled the (hidden) CFR option shorty before their Ampere release...this does mean that here's a big drawback with NVL-SLI-CFR as you won't be able to use the latest NVidia drivers but instead have to rely on those a few months old (unless Nvidia changes its mind again and reintroduces the CFR option). Speaking of Ampere, there are just a few 3090 MSFS 2020 vids out there, never mind that any kind of performance evaluation with MSFS 2020 depends heavily on not only all the 4K eye candy being enabled, but also how high you fly... But judging what I have seen re. MS FS 2020 and a 3090, 2x 2080 Tis / CFR are 'very competitive' with a single 3090... 2x 2080 Ti even with just a mild oc can exceed 70 FPS high up in 4K / Ultra and still hit high 40s to low 50s when low over complex scenes... ...then again, if NVidia and/or Microsoft decide to offer an update with NVL-SLI enabled, TWO 3090s might just be the thing you need for MS FS 2020 8K / Ultra ? In any case, here are the NVidia Inspector settings you need once you installed one of the aforementioned drivers If you have correctly enabled NVL-SLI-CFR on your RTX 208x or RTX Titan, you will have a bit of a surprise when the first splash screens for MS FS 2020 appear while loading the sim... Now you know why CFR is sometimes called 'checkerboard' rendering...but no worries - by the time you get to the main menu after all the splash screens, everything will be as it should be. Then the fun can begin... Happy landings !

I really like that fan-controller (looks like w/ manual adjustment? !). What's the name / model number of that ? Also, do they offer one for Molex-connector fans as well ? Tx. I've got 9x SilentTyphoons 3k rpm in a system - while their, ahem, sound is very acceptable for 3k rpm fans, they nevertheless are 3k rpm fans...

...yeah, no rush, Cyberpunk won't be out in time anyway. However, your game performance thread wouldn't just go away either, perhaps later, other cards such as RDNA2, Big Navi etc could also be added if available for testing. Ditto for this $199k special (half price and more performance than the previous version - what a deal)..8x A100 GPUs, 2x 64c/128t Epyc CPUs - personally, I would water-cool that thing

...yeah, those 4790Ks ran hot, but had a big IPC step-up :-) ...and yes, the 3770K single core depicted in the table was done at 4.7 (5.2 multi-c was added later). For further gen comparison, here's a 3770 (non-K!) @ 4.35GHz with multi-core and single-core Cinebench R20 results, confirming the step up between its gen and 4790K gen :

...so for now, more subsistence on YouTube trailers :angry_suck_kr:

Nice...and just to confirm for 3rd party reference purposes, the 10700k is the 'equivalent / successor' to the 9900K/KS, albeit on LG1200 and with slight IPC and security changes.

Yes !

With all this oldish hardware finding new life in the retro-builds, a comparison of performance of different CPU generations and models might be useful (even with some newish CPUs thrown in)...here is a table for multi-core and single-core performance in Cinebench R20 - perhaps it can be helpful for your upgrade-vs-update decisions...

Far Cry 5 is a great addition, too. Re. the Aida64 GPGPU benchmark, benchmarking in general would also be interesting (3DM, Unigine etc) unless this is just focused strictly on games)

...yeah, I just wanted to know if games supported NVLink w/Ampere, I didn't suggest it was a 'must' with my list above, before this went sideways a bit re. generalizations. Anyhow, here is my list again for Ampere testing: MS Flight Simulator 2020 Various Crytek- engine games (does Ampere' play Crysis ?', hehe) Metro Exodus RDR2 Various 'Need for Speed' (good to stress graphics at speed), may be also The Crew 2, Forza Horizon 4. ...and I like to add: Doom Eternal AND: When the time comes for its release: Cyberpunk 2077

...4K must be a different planet, I guess. RDR2 and Metro Exodus are fairly new, and I'm happy they fully support NVLink; w/o it, I couldn't play 4K max ultra at decent frame rates (my monitor is 40 inch 4K @ 72 Hz). The NFS series also supports it, and Crytek thrives on it. I have no idea how MS Flight Sim 2020 deals with it yet, but all other games I play support it, so 'rumours of its death are greatly exaggerated' In fact, I also re-link this re. the mGPU future outlook:

...I respectfully disagree with generalizations like that - which I see repeated often enough on the internet. It is true that SLI/NVLink support in some games as well as scaling can be issues, but I run four machines (2x 1080P, 2x 4K) which all have SLI or NVLink, and I have encountered few problems, at least in the games I play. I add though that some of these machines are also used for productivity with their dual cards, so my approach - and experience in tuning mGPU- is different to begin with. More importantly, NVidia quietly introduced drivers that support NVlink CFR only last fall (as opposed to just AFR). This is so because post-Ampere, mGPUs will play a much bigger role (similar to AMD's multi-chiplet approach about to be joined by Intel next gen CPUs.). NVidia would not introduce mGPU CFR w/o a reason, and I put a related thread up on this forum > here. I am not suggesting that SLI/NVLink is problem free or enjoys support everywhere, but it certainly is 'not dead', and mGPU setup fans can particularly look forward to next gen. But even with current gens, you already saw the above NVLink RDR2 video links. Now, here is a Metro Exodus one @ 4K / max settings comparing a single Titan RTX vs dual Titan RTX (on CFR), including w/ frame times. In general, NVLink (AFR, CFR) may not scale perfectly, but if it means an extra 20-30 FPS in 4K to put the game at or above 60 FPS instead of 30 FPS or below, I'll take it.

This is going to be a fun and informative thread ! I am particularity interested in fast scenery-change games, like flight sims and racing games on ultra graphics / 4K, and NVLink-capable (CFR even better). Here's my short list: MS Flight Simulator 2020 Various Crytek- engine games (does Ampere' play Crysis ?', hehe) Metro Exodus RDR2 Various 'Need for Speed' (good to stress graphics at speed), may be also The Crew 2, Forza Horizon 4. BTW, most of the above work with NVlink/SLI (some even with the future 'CFR' rather than just 'AFR'). Also, my 2x w-cooled 2080 Ti run at between 2145 and 2205 on NVlink, so for now, I don't feel the rush to buy Ampere on release but instead look at threads such as this to figure out what / when to buy. Speaking of 2080 Ti NVlink, here are two vids for RDR2 @ 4K ultra

Yes, the memory bug is what I was referring to regarding change of the CPU Straps...and at least with my 32GB / 2400MHz (stock before oc) RAM, it was present on the X79-E WS 4960X as well...same as with my Rampage IV Black, as I recall. Changing to Strap 125 fixed that and then some - it went gangbusters on 'writes'. I can't locate the screenie of the Strap 100 Aida benchmark for this setup right now (writes were in the 40gb/s range at Strap 100, but reads were 'ok'), but check the screens below for Strap 125 + extra FSB for 131.5 MHz. All settings are post extensive stability testing. For comps, I also added the 5960X at both Strap 125 and Strap 167, and my TR setup. I've run Handbrake on the TR, and it flies... Re. your observation about your case temps, airflow management with all those components will be challenging no matter what...strategically placing the 50mm fans you ordered should help, though. I would even think about making some little baffles to help direct flow a bit.

...you will find that the Asus X79-E WS is actually a great overclocking board (as long as RAM setting is no higher than 2400 before potential FSB - I run 32GB of TridentZ at 2500+ via FSB). Re. single core performance, I ended up settling on the 4960X 'ES' CPU (6c/12t) because I knew from other mobo combos that it is a crazy clocker...4.8 GHz all-c is not an issue re. vCore or power consumption, with good water-cooling at least, though I settled on 4.74. Depending on your RAM etc, Strap 125 can get you a bit higher clocks at the same vCore - and for some reason, a huge step-up in RAM performance (especially re. 'writes') on this board, a least with my CPU / RAM combo. I also use FSB in addition to multipliers, but with your Plex media server and all those PCIe cards, I would be quite conservative with that. 'Back in the day' of sub-zero, I ran 4x GPUs on this mobo with up to 103.5MHz (Strap 100) or 131.5 (Strap 125). With a Plex media server, I would probably stay below that, LSI cards and all. The Xeon 1680v2 should behave somewhat similar. The only thing to remember (which i am sure you know anyways) is to a.) save your best stable profile in the Bios and b.) have your most important files backed up...with FSB tuning, there comes the point in time when it is one step too far and RAM / drives can't keep up and mess files up. I always like reminding on that so I remember to do it myself... FYI, here is a Cinbench R20 run with my current settings:

With a sophisticated build and all its components like this, there will be lots and lots of options to fine tune for months to coem. BTW, I have used and just love Asus RAM disk, one reason why I tend to run larger amounts of RAM in my builds. Asus RamDisk even works on some non-Asus boards if they are of similar vintage. That said, RamDisk obviously might not be such a good idea on a Plex media server, but it can make mincemeat out of the fastest nvme drives out there.

...deserved criticism ? ban*danna