pio

After researching it a tad more, yes 775 CPU's seem to support the missing instruction that K8's are missing. Makes sense, since K8 came before 775 did, K8 was released as the "first" 64bit CPU ever. Intel answered with the P4 for 775 (and Pentium D to TRY to compete with the Athlon64 x2's). And then later smoked the K8's with the Core 2 Duo. So yes, makes sense that Intel started that instruction set earlier than AMD did. Socket 423 and 478 P4's however will not run it. Granted those weren't 64bit CPU's anyway. That was a one off issue, yes. But the point still stands, you can't game on Windows 10 with vintage hardware. Windows 10 requires a quad core just to get the CPU usage below 100% at idle. -_- I can knock my Ryzen 5800x down to dual core without HT, just 2 threads, and it sits at 100% CPU usage 24/7. Enable my 5800x into a quad thread CPU, and CPU usage is magically at 0% idle.

Wasn't that run one of the top hwbot runs for that hardware, giving you massive hwbot points IIRC? Yup......can't run that anymore. -_-

Look, Ultra...... I never ONCE said that this move from Steam isn't something you can mitigate with modern hardware and OS's. That's duh, we all know that. The point I was making, is that this completely ruins the purchases of old games (on Steam), that were bought on purpose to play on old hardware. This is 110% a fact that you CANNOT dispute. Try to run a 4870x2 on Windows 11, tell me how well the driver install goes. Or same thing trying to install Windows 10 or 11 to an older CPU. I never said that this is a problem for people with modern hardware. It's a problem for people with older hardware, benchmarking (3dmark is on Steam), and other uses of old hardware such as retro gaming.

Dude, you just dissed our entire hwbot team........... We've got team members buying 4870x2's right now.......

I beg to differ on that last point. Retro and Enthusiast go hand in hand. The only people that are into retro hardware, are the people who have a geniune love of hardware itself. Retro enthusiasts, I'd say are a grade above your standard enthusiast that has one rig and upgrades regularly. It absolutely IS true. Try to run Windows 10 on a K7 or a Pentium 3 or Socket 423 P4. You'll find that games run just fine on that hardware on Windows 7, whereas they won't even install Windows 10. The K8 thing as well, which is newer. That's the whole point I'm making here mate. Steam is essentially stealing games from my access, that I've paid for, that I play on the systems designs to run them. Yes, YES, I "can" run them on modern hardware with a modern OS. But I shouldn't HAVE TO.

TY. I wasn't sure if the cutoff was Socket 939 or if AM2 K8's were included. I know K10's work, which I said. ............didn't I say that like 10 times? Yes, a K8 can install Win10 x86. But its not going to play games on Steam in 10 x86. The CPU is stuck at 100% the whole time because of the Windows 10 overhead required. But yet 2 weeks ago, my K8 build was happily playing my Steam games on Windows 7 x64. You're also negating every OTHER CPU that's older than K8, that can run and play games on Windows 7 just fine, but can't run Windows 10. I never said this was a problem for people with modern hardware, this is a problem for vintage / retro enthusiasts.

LOL, no its absolutely NOT a fact. I can install Windows 7 and enjoy it on an Athlon 1100MHz (yes, x86). And yes, it'll play games too with my Radeon 9800XT. However it too, will not even try to install Win10 x86, let alone play games. K8, absolutely is missing the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, which is a requirement for Windows 8.1 x64 and newer. This is a fact. Absolutely NOBODY, nobody at all, has EVER gotten Windows 10 x64 to run on a K8. I was wrong about Core 2. I'll give you that, but I also said from the very first comment I've never tried a Core 2 with Windows 10 yet. Maybe the 775 motherboard chipsets have the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, and maybe that's why those work? I really don't know. It was implemented with AMD during the K10 era. As far as sending you a board, dude I'll send you a whole 939 board, CPU, and RAM combo if you really want to do this. I have a stack of 6 of them in my storage closet lol.

Prove it, because I already did in my build log thread. Don't have a K8? PM me, I'll send you one just so you can prove me "wrong".

I have plenty of Windows 10 boxes. Yes, this actually does effect me 110%. My daily driver retro rig is a Socket 939 Opteron 180 with a GTX 480 in it, running Windows 7 x64 because nothing newer will run on it due to missing that instruction set CMPXCHG16b. I used to actually play games on it, I did just a month ago actually. In Steam. Ran my older titles beautifully actually.

Okay fine. I'll send you a 939 board, and YOU install Windows 10 x64 to it then? You're completely missing the point and running a rant about something that doesn't even matter. Windows 10 isn't a gaming OS for older hardware, its not. It cannot run on a lot of old hardware, (read the thread I linked) due to that missing CMPXCHG16b instruction set. And the hardware it CAN run on (that's vintage), it won't run games (even older games) due to missing drivers for the GPU, or the CPU just not having enough grunt power to get through Windows alone. For THOSE type of people, with retro machines, forcing Windows 10 is a bad bad thing.

Sigh, that's Windows 10 x86. Are you gaming with only 2GB of RAM? Do you really think a P4 is going to game with Windows 10? It will with 7. With 10, there's not enough CPU leftover.

Okay here, you find me a video of Windows 10 x64 actually running on a K8. I'll wait.

Yes, x86 version of Windows 10 will work fine on K8 since it doesn't require the CMPXCHG16b instruction set. I said I wasn't sure about the Core 2 thing. So yeah, Core 2 works, Pentium D / 4 doesn't then.

The AMD Athlon64 isn't a 64 bit? K, explain how it runs XP x64, Vista x64, and 7 x64 just fine then? As I've been stating, its missing the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, which is a REQUIREMENT of 8.1 x64 and newer OS's. That's why older systems can't upgrade to 10 (or even 8.1).

No, it doesn't...... They are missing the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, which is a REQUIREMENT for Windows 8.1 and newer x64 OS's. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/is-it-impossible-to-install-windows-8-1-64bit-on-a-socket-939-computer.2396937/ I did say, that MAYBE, just maybe the Core 2 architecture has it? It's the same generation as K8, so its iffy, I'm not sure since I haven't tried. Pentium D / 4 though for sure won't work either.

And I have like 8x K8's sitting here that are still more than capable of gaming. I assure you, it doesn't work. I haven't personally tested a Core 2, maybe Core 2 received the required instruction set. It might have been Pentium D / Pentium 4 being the cutoff for Intel, I can't say 110% sure on Intel's side since I haven't tried myself personally. I figured same era they'd have similar instructions though. K8 for sure doesn't work. You need a K10 CPU (Phenom II) or newer with AMD to run Windows 8.1 x64 or newer OS's.

Nope, that is incorrect. You have to run x86 version of Windows 10 on K8 and Core 2. They lack the instructions required to run Windows 8.1 and newer x64 versions. So no, not every PC that runs Windows 7 can upgrade to 10. That's a big part of the problem with this Steam thing. As I said though, its probably not going to matter anyway, and I'll probably stop buying games on Steam and switch to GoG titles. Seems to be what a lot of the retro PC guys are doing too. It's a non issue for most people that upgrade, yes. The issue comes in when you buy a game, you have a system (older) that meets the minimum requirements, and let's say Windows XP or 7 or whatever is the minimum requirement. Steam is now forcing those people to upgrade to Windows 10 (or lose their games if they can't). Yes, its a Chrome issue at the heart of it though, so its "outside of Valve's hands"..........but its really not when they could just create an x86/64 capable "vintage client" for just installing the games. They COULD do that, they just won't.

This is true, however the problem with the Windows 7 cutoff is that there's still a LOT of machines out there that run 7, but not 10. If a PC has AMD's K8 architecture (Athlon64 x2), or a Core 2 or older in it, its no longer allowed to run Steam, as such, no longer allowed to run games you've paid for. No, not a LOT of people are doing that and I can agree with that. However there ARE a growing number of retro enthusiasts who are ticked off about this. I'm personally really hoping for something to come out from Valve about a retro client. It'd solve all of these problems for everyone. Don't quote me on this, but I THINK as of right now you can still download and install Steam on 7. The problem will be when Chrome gets an update that bricks Windows 7 installs of Chrome. That's probably when Steam will quit working entirely, since its so interwebbed with Chrome.

This move seems to have ticked off a lot more people than when they cut Windows XP support. Interesting. Personally, I still say that Valve should release a "vintage client" capable of installing on any version of windows (with a disclaimer about security risks). Something that allows the games to be installed and played, and that's it. No extra features (so no need for the Chrome bits). They could do this, Steam used to work even on Windows 98. So they absolutely CAN do it. The reason this upsets me, is because there's TONS of games that I personally own, that only work on older Windows. Those games, that I've paid for, are slowly being taken away from me by Steam, since I can no longer play them. A good example honestly is Quake. Yes, there's the new remake. Yes, it does run on Windows 10. But it doesn't feel the same AT ALL compared to a Windows 98 or XP install of it on older hardware. If the game says it requires Windows XP, 7, 98 or whatever, we should be able to play it on those OS's since we've payed for the title to play. Just my 2 cents. I know advancement and all that, but this really wouldn't be THAT hard for Valve to pull off. They just won't. -_- If something isn't done about this soon by somebody, I might just start frequenting GoG sales instead of Steam sales and start migrating my library over to GoG. At least those games are DRM free.

@LabRat Adapter man? Want to chime in if you see this?

My actual new parts, GPU comes in Wednesday so it'll be installed Wednesday. The FX will probably arrive next, so I'll probably get that rig back to functional status, so it can go to storage finally till I'm ready for it. Rest of my new rig's parts, hopefully soon. Bought them used, no tracking yet (not worried about it). I'm really not looking forward to tearing down the HAF 700 case, its SUPER heavy. -_-

double post oops

Yeah it was the CHV that you linked me with the FX 6200 in it. Offered $100, seller accepted. I have a 240mm (dual 120mm fan) AIO cooler right now in the FX rig, I'll try that out still and see if it keeps working. I"ll probably replace it with a 280mm (dual 140) like I mentioned over the chat the other day. For now, that's what I'll be working with. I have two 8350's on hand, my old one which I thought was dead that was pulling 4.8GHz stable no problem with the AIO cooler I have. And another lapped CPU from neurotix that he claims is capable of 5GHz daily. I noticed the lapped CPU runs significantly hotter than my original FX 8350 though, so it might be a heat limitation like you were saying.

Alright, so as soon as I can figure out how to re-wire the front panel on that old Socket 7 K6 build, oops......I can start building that one. I did lose the spring that goes to the power supply switch on the front panel. Not sure how I'm going to find a replacement for THAT. -_- FX rig - I have a fix for it coming. Ordered a CHV motherboard. I probably should replace the 240mm AIO with a 280mm as well (and hope my 240 is still good for other uses). A motherboard should most definitely fix it though. I'll get the Socket 939 crossfire board recapped soon. I'm missing a proper case for that build, probably some other minor bits and bobs too, but its also not really a NECESSARY build since I already have 2 functioning 939 builds. None of these rigs are high end clockers by any means. But they're almost all "good" builds from their appropriate eras. Been working on getting them all installed and imaged as well, so they're easy to reinstall later. That's been another thing I've been very slowly working through. I absolutely WILL have this full collection complete in 2024 though. I'll probably have to start a new thread, or really REALLY update this one when they're done to properly show them all off. Idk. Stay tuned though, big things for this collection are coming in 2024!

Well, I won the offer on that Crosshair V with the FX 6200 combo. $100 shipped (plus tax). So I'll be putting a CHV in my FX rig soon, I'll just live with one of the two 8350's. I'm sure one of the two CPU's probably still works fine. I'll probably buy a better AIO cooler for it before I'll buy a FX 9590. Maybe the 8350 will clock sufficiently for me again.