wccftech Valve’s Steam Officially Ends Support For Windows 7 and Windows 8

[bonami2]

Quote

On Valve's Steam Support page, the firm has revealed that future platform updates won't include support for Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1, which means that older versions of Microsoft's operating system will be deprived of security updates and technical support. This means that the users on the mentioned platforms are advised to switch to the latest versions anytime soon, given that utilizing Steam on Windows 7/8 won't be the ideal choice.

Valve's Steam Officially Ends Support For Windows 7 and Windows 8

WCCFTECH.COM

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Steam has officially dropped support for "outdated" Microsoft Windows 7 and Windows 8, marking the end of an era for gamers.

 

[ENTERPRISE]

A shame, well for Windows 7, however I understand STEAMs stance.

[pio]

This move seems to have ticked off a lot more people than when they cut Windows XP support.  Interesting.

Personally, I still say that Valve should release a "vintage client" capable of installing on any version of windows (with a disclaimer about security risks).  Something that allows the games to be installed and played, and that's it.  No extra features (so no need for the Chrome bits).  They could do this, Steam used to work even on Windows 98.  So they absolutely CAN do it.

The reason this upsets me, is because there's TONS of games that I personally own, that only work on older Windows.  Those games, that I've paid for, are slowly being taken away from me by Steam, since I can no longer play them.  A good example honestly is Quake.  Yes, there's the new remake.  Yes, it does run on Windows 10.  But it doesn't feel the same AT ALL compared to a Windows 98 or XP install of it on older hardware.  If the game says it requires Windows XP, 7, 98 or whatever, we should be able to play it on those OS's since we've payed for the title to play.

 

Just my 2 cents.  I know advancement and all that, but this really wouldn't be THAT hard for Valve to pull off.  They just won't. -_-

If something isn't done about this soon by somebody, I might just start frequenting GoG sales instead of Steam sales and start migrating my library over to GoG.  At least those games are DRM free.  

Edited January 4 by pioneerisloud

[UltraMega]

41 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

This move seems to have ticked off a lot more people than when they cut Windows XP support.  Interesting.

Personally, I still say that Valve should release a "vintage client" capable of installing on any version of windows (with a disclaimer about security risks).  Something that allows the games to be installed and played, and that's it.  No extra features (so no need for the Chrome bits).  They could do this, Steam used to work even on Windows 98.  So they absolutely CAN do it.

The reason this upsets me, is because there's TONS of games that I personally own, that only work on older Windows.  Those games, that I've paid for, are slowly being taken away from me by Steam, since I can no longer play them.  A good example honestly is Quake.  Yes, there's the new remake.  Yes, it does run on Windows 10.  But it doesn't feel the same AT ALL compared to a Windows 98 or XP install of it on older hardware.  If the game says it requires Windows XP, 7, 98 or whatever, we should be able to play it on those OS's since we've payed for the title to play.

 

Just my 2 cents.  I know advancement and all that, but this really wouldn't be THAT hard for Valve to pull off.  They just won't. -_-

If something isn't done about this soon by somebody, I might just start frequenting GoG sales instead of Steam sales and start migrating my library over to GoG.  At least those games are DRM free.  

Probably not really many or any games that will run on windows 7 but not 10/11. The only game I've ever had trouble with on 10 was F.E.A.R. but I found a simple fix for it online and got it working. That game was originally for XP anyway tho. 

[bonami2]

1 hour ago, pioneerisloud said:

This move seems to have ticked off a lot more people than when they cut Windows XP support.  Interesting.

Personally, I still say that Valve should release a "vintage client" capable of installing on any version of windows (with a disclaimer about security risks).  Something that allows the games to be installed and played, and that's it.  No extra features (so no need for the Chrome bits).  They could do this, Steam used to work even on Windows 98.  So they absolutely CAN do it.

The reason this upsets me, is because there's TONS of games that I personally own, that only work on older Windows.  Those games, that I've paid for, are slowly being taken away from me by Steam, since I can no longer play them.  A good example honestly is Quake.  Yes, there's the new remake.  Yes, it does run on Windows 10.  But it doesn't feel the same AT ALL compared to a Windows 98 or XP install of it on older hardware.  If the game says it requires Windows XP, 7, 98 or whatever, we should be able to play it on those OS's since we've payed for the title to play.

 

Just my 2 cents.  I know advancement and all that, but this really wouldn't be THAT hard for Valve to pull off.  They just won't. -_-

If something isn't done about this soon by somebody, I might just start frequenting GoG sales instead of Steam sales and start migrating my library over to GoG.  At least those games are DRM free.  

I think you can run an older version they just says that the store chrome browser will be unsecured.

[pio]

1 hour ago, UltraMega said:

Probably not really many or any games that will run on windows 7 but not 10/11. The only game I've ever had trouble with on 10 was F.E.A.R. but I found a simple fix for it online and got it working. That game was originally for XP anyway tho. 

This is true, however the problem with the Windows 7 cutoff is that there's still a LOT of machines out there that run 7, but not 10.  If a PC has AMD's K8 architecture (Athlon64 x2), or a Core 2 or older in it, its no longer allowed to run Steam, as such, no longer allowed to run games you've paid for.

No, not a LOT of people are doing that and I can agree with that.

However there ARE a growing number of retro enthusiasts who are ticked off about this.

 

I'm personally really hoping for something to come out from Valve about a retro client.  It'd solve all of these problems for everyone.

 

  

16 minutes ago, bonami2 said:

I think you can run an older version they just says that the store chrome browser will be unsecured.

 

Don't quote me on this, but I THINK as of right now you can still download and install Steam on 7.  The problem will be when Chrome gets an update that bricks Windows 7 installs of Chrome.  That's probably when Steam will quit working entirely, since its so interwebbed with Chrome.

Edited January 4 by pioneerisloud

[UltraMega]

22 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

This is true, however the problem with the Windows 7 cutoff is that there's still a LOT of machines out there that run 7, but not 10.  If a PC has AMD's K8 architecture (Athlon64 x2), or a Core 2 or older in it, its no longer allowed to run Steam, as such, no longer allowed to run games you've paid for.

No, not a LOT of people are doing that and I can agree with that.

However there ARE a growing number of retro enthusiasts who are ticked off about this.

 

I'm personally really hoping for something to come out from Valve about a retro client.  It'd solve all of these problems for everyone.

 

Windows 10 should be able to run on anything windows 7 can run on. I know I have installed windows 10 on a Core 2 Duo CPU. Even Pentium 4 can run windows 10. Athlon64 X2 can also run windows 10, I just searched for it on youtube and saw videos of windows 10 running on a Pentium 4 and an Athlon64 X2. 

 

Every PC that runs windows 7 can be upgraded to 10, and the upgrade is still free despite reports that it isn't. It's the last windows OS to support 32 bit. Windows 10 can run on PCs that it really shouldn't, but it's no worse than 7 on older machines. I think you would have to go pack to Pentium 3 to find hardware that windows 10 won't run on, but neither will 7. 

Edited January 4 by UltraMega

[pio]

9 minutes ago, UltraMega said:

 

Windows 10 should be able to run on anything windows 7 can run on. I know I have installed windows 10 on a Core 2 Duo CPU. Even Pentium 4 can run windows 10. Athlon64 X2 can also run windows 10, I just searched for it on youtube and saw videos of windows 10 running on a Pentium 4 and an Athlon64 X2. 

 

Every PC that runs windows 7 can be upgraded to 10, and the upgrade is still free despite reports that it isn't. It's the last windows OS to support 32 bit. Windows 10 can run on PCs that it really shouldn't, but it's no worse than 7 on older machines. I think you would have to go pack to Pentium 3 to find hardware that windows 10 won't run on, but neither will 7. 

Nope, that is incorrect.  You have to run x86 version of Windows 10 on K8 and Core 2.  They lack the instructions required to run Windows 8.1 and newer x64 versions.  So no, not every PC that runs Windows 7 can upgrade to 10.  That's a big part of the problem with this Steam thing.

As I said though, its probably not going to matter anyway, and I'll probably stop buying games on Steam and switch to GoG titles.  Seems to be what a lot of the retro PC guys are doing too.

It's a non issue for most people that upgrade, yes.  The issue comes in when you buy a game, you have a system (older) that meets the minimum requirements, and let's say Windows XP or 7 or whatever is the minimum requirement.  Steam is now forcing those people to upgrade to Windows 10 (or lose their games if they can't).  Yes, its a Chrome issue at the heart of it though, so its "outside of Valve's hands"..........but its really not when they could just create an x86/64 capable "vintage client" for just installing the games.  They COULD do that, they just won't.

Edited January 4 by pioneerisloud

[UltraMega]

3 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

Nope, that is incorrect.  You have to run x86 version of Windows 10 on K8 and Core 2.  They lack the instructions required to run Windows 8.1 and newer x64 versions.  So no, not every PC that runs Windows 7 can upgrade to 10.  That's a big part of the problem with this Steam thing.

 

I have literally upgraded a core 2 duo PC from 7 to 10, they don't lack anything required to run windows 10. It was my moms PC. I built it. 

I can assure you it works. 

 

x86 has nothing to do with it. Windows 10 supports both 32-bit and x86/64-bit. 

Edited January 4 by UltraMega

[pio]

Just now, UltraMega said:

 

I have literally upgraded a core 2 duo PC from 7 to 10, they don't lack anything required to run windows 10. It was my moms PC. I built it. 

I can assure you it works. 

And I have like 8x K8's sitting here that are still more than capable of gaming.  I assure you, it doesn't work.

 

I haven't personally tested a Core 2, maybe Core 2 received the required instruction set.  It might have been Pentium D / Pentium 4 being the cutoff for Intel, I can't say 110% sure on Intel's side since I haven't tried myself personally.  I figured same era they'd have similar instructions though.  K8 for sure doesn't work.  You need a K10 CPU (Phenom II) or newer with AMD to run Windows 8.1 x64 or newer OS's.

[UltraMega]

1 minute ago, pioneerisloud said:

And I have like 8x K8's sitting here that are still more than capable of gaming.  I assure you, it doesn't work.

 

I haven't personally tested a Core 2, maybe Core 2 received the required instruction set.  It might have been Pentium D / Pentium 4 being the cutoff for Intel, I can't say 110% sure on Intel's side since I haven't tried myself personally.  I figured same era they'd have similar instructions though.  K8 for sure doesn't work.  You need a K10 CPU (Phenom II) or newer with AMD to run Windows 8.1 x64 or newer OS's.

 

IDK what to tell you, maybe there was some other issue in the way when you last tried to run windows 10 on any of those CPUs. Window 10 absolutely works on those CPUs. 

[pio]

2 minutes ago, UltraMega said:

 

IDK what to tell you, maybe there was some other issue in the way when you last tried to run windows 10 on any of those CPUs. Window 10 absolutely works on those CPUs. 

No, it doesn't......  

They are missing the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, which is a REQUIREMENT for Windows 8.1 and newer x64 OS's.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/is-it-impossible-to-install-windows-8-1-64bit-on-a-socket-939-computer.2396937/

I did say, that MAYBE, just maybe the Core 2 architecture has it?  It's the same generation as K8, so its iffy, I'm not sure since I haven't tried.  Pentium D / 4 though for sure won't work either.

Edited January 4 by pioneerisloud

[UltraMega]

2 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

No, it doesn't......  

They are missing the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, which is a REQUIREMENT for Windows 8.1 and newer x64 OS's.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/is-it-impossible-to-install-windows-8-1-64bit-on-a-socket-939-computer.2396937/

 

The thread you just linked doesn't say that any particular CPU won't work with windows 10, just that it's not a 64-bit CPU. 

The core 2 Duo CPU that was in my mom's PC at the time was a 32-bit CPU. It would not work with windows 10 64-bit but worked fine with 32-bit. 

Perhaps you tried to install the 64-bit version of windows 10 on this older hardware? The 32 and 64 bit versions are separate installers. 

Edited January 4 by UltraMega

[pio]

3 minutes ago, UltraMega said:

 

The thread you just linked doesn't say that any particular CPU won't work with windows 10, just that it's not a 64-bit CPU. 

The AMD Athlon64 isn't a 64 bit?  K, explain how it runs XP x64, Vista x64, and 7 x64 just fine then?

As I've been stating, its missing the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, which is a REQUIREMENT of 8.1 x64 and newer OS's.  That's why older systems can't upgrade to 10 (or even 8.1).

Edited January 4 by pioneerisloud

[The Pook]

9 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

No, it doesn't......  

They are missing the CMPXCHG16b instruction set, which is a REQUIREMENT for Windows 8.1 and newer x64 OS's.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/is-it-impossible-to-install-windows-8-1-64bit-on-a-socket-939-computer.2396937/

I did say, that MAYBE, just maybe the Core 2 architecture has it?  It's the same generation as K8, so its iffy, I'm not sure since I haven't tried.  Pentium D / 4 though for sure won't work either.

 

Core 2 Duo/Quad definitely works out of the box, 64-bit or otherwise. 

 

Windows 10 32 bit does work on Clawhammer. 64-bit you're SOL. 

 

*edit*: at least it does on older versions, dunno if you can get 22H2 working. 

 

 

Edited January 4 by The Pook

[UltraMega]

1 minute ago, pioneerisloud said:

The AMD Athlon64 isn't a 64 bit?  K, explain how it runs XP x64, Vista x64, and 7 x64 just fine then?

The thread you linked didn't mention a specific CPU, just some instruction set. 

 

And not for nothing, but some thread from 2014 isn't exactly meaningful evidence of anything. Just search for a video of windows 10 running on these parts you've mentioned.

 

Again, I have installed 10 on a Core 2 Duo and even weaker CPUs. I know it works. 

[pio]

1 minute ago, The Pook said:

 

Core 2 Duo/Quad definitely works out of the box, 64-bit or otherwise. 

 

Windows 10 32 bit apparently does work on Clawhammer. 

 

*edit*: at least it does on older versions, dunno if you can get 22H2 working. 

 

 

Yes, x86 version of Windows 10 will work fine on K8 since it doesn't require the CMPXCHG16b instruction set.

I said I wasn't sure about the Core 2 thing.  So yeah, Core 2 works, Pentium D / 4 doesn't then.    

[pio]

1 minute ago, UltraMega said:

The thread you linked didn't mention a specific CPU, just some instruction set. 

 

And not for nothing, but some thread from 2014 isn't exactly meaningful evidence of anything. Just search for a video of windows 10 running on these parts you've mentioned.

 

Again, I have installed 10 on a Core 2 Duo and even weaker CPUs. I know it works. 

Okay here, you find me a video of Windows 10 x64 actually running on a K8.  I'll wait.

[UltraMega]

Just now, pioneerisloud said:

Yes, x86 version of Windows 10 will work fine on K8 since it doesn't require the CMPXCHG16b instruction set.

I said I wasn't sure about the Core 2 thing.  So yeah, Core 2 works, Pentium D / 4 doesn't then.    

Pentium D and Pentium 4 work.

 

 

Everything that can run 7 can run 10. That's really all there is to it. 

 

[UltraMega]

1 minute ago, pioneerisloud said:

Okay here, you find me a video of Windows 10 x64 actually running on a K8.  I'll wait.

 

Is this K8? Not that familiar with older AMD CPUs.

 

 

Edited January 4 by UltraMega

[pio]

3 minutes ago, UltraMega said:

 

Is this K8? Not that familiar with older AMD CPUs.

 

 

Sigh, that's Windows 10 x86.  Are you gaming with only 2GB of RAM?  Do you really think a P4 is going to game with Windows 10?  It will with 7.  With 10, there's not enough CPU leftover.

Edited January 4 by pioneerisloud

[UltraMega]

1 minute ago, pioneerisloud said:

Sigh, that's Windows 10 x86.  Are you gaming with only 2GB of RAM?

It says 64 bit right here, at 7 seconds in to the video. 
 

 

 

[Sir Beregond]

This is a fun aside, but I think @pioneerisloud entire premise was that there are a small segment of retro enthusiasts who want to run computers on retro OS's that they have no intention of upgrading to Windows 10 on, and since the games they bought have a required spec of those same retro OS's, losing access to the games because of the game platform dropping support (unrelated to the games themselves) isn't very fun. So I don't think whether or not you can upgrade to Windows 10 is anything they give a rat's about in this context @UltraMega. I'm sure @pioneerisloud already has a W10 or W11 box.

[LabRat]

10 minutes ago, pioneerisloud said:

Yes, x86 version of Windows 10 will work fine on K8 since it doesn't require the CMPXCHG16b instruction set.

I said I wasn't sure about the Core 2 thing.  So yeah, Core 2 works, Pentium D / 4 doesn't then.    

That 4GiB memory limit is a real PITA. Not to mention, Windows 11-forward is depreciating 32-bit Install support.
Also, non-64-bit Execs are typically limited to 2GB RAM. (There's more than a couple games over the years I'd had to edit the exe on to not run out of RAM).

 

Quote

The CMPXCHG16B instruction performs an atomic compare-and-exchange on 16-byte values. It is supported on all modern x86-64 processors, although some early AMD64 CPUs did not support it. This instruction may also be referred to as CompareExchange128.

Quote

• Early AMD64 processors lacked the CMPXCHG16B instruction, which is an extension of the CMPXCHG8B instruction present on most post-80486 processors. Similar to CMPXCHG8B, CMPXCHG16B allows for atomic operations on octal words. This is useful for parallel algorithms that use compare and swap on data larger than the size of a pointer, common in lock-free and wait-free algorithms. Without CMPXCHG16B one must use workarounds, such as a critical section or alternative lock-free approaches. Its absence also prevents 64-bit Windows prior to Windows 8.1 from having a user-mode address space larger than 8 terabytes. The 64-bit version of Windows 8.1(onwards) requires the instruction.

More info:

Windows 10 64-bit requirements: Does my CPU support CMPXCHG16b, PrefetchW and LAHF/SAHF?

SUPERUSER.COM

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I'm currently trying to find out whether or not it would be a good idea to update my slightly dated notebook (Windows 7, 64-bit) to Windows 10. The problem is that Microsoft states in their Windows...

What is wrong with this emulation of CMPXCHG16B instruction?

STACKOVERFLOW.COM

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I'm trying to run a binary program that uses CMPXCHG16B instruction at one place, unfortunately my Athlon 64 X2 3800+ doesn't support it. Which is great, because I see it as a programming challenge...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4 by LabRat

[pio]

1 minute ago, UltraMega said:

It says 64 bit right here, at 7 seconds in to the video. 
 

 

 

Okay fine.  I'll send you a 939 board, and YOU install Windows 10 x64 to it then?

You're completely missing the point and running a rant about something that doesn't even matter.  Windows 10 isn't a gaming OS for older hardware, its not.  It cannot run on a lot of old hardware, (read the thread I linked) due to that missing CMPXCHG16b instruction set.  And the hardware it CAN run on (that's vintage), it won't run games (even older games) due to missing drivers for the GPU, or the CPU just not having enough grunt power to get through Windows alone.

For THOSE type of people, with retro machines, forcing Windows 10 is a bad bad thing.